New French President

[KramerAmsterdam]

Not sure who spent all that money you guys owe down south...but WTF do I have to pay for it here up north?

To me the system of 1 money union works well (see USA) BUT one has to have 1 Central bank as well...15 governments and 1 coin just is bad bad news.

Too bad you guys are fucked up in Greece, but blame your politicians for spending what they did not have.. and blame the banks to for lending out money without collateral.

Remy

[Bastardo]

Not sure who spent all that money you guys owe down south...but WTF do I have to pay for it here up north?

Who´s been selling frigates, submarines,main battle tanks etc... at a huge profit in multi billion contracts to Greece ?

There are no inocents here Remi

[Kostas Dee]

Who´s been selling frigates, submarines,main battle tanks etc... at a huge profit in multi billion contracts to Greece ?

There are no inocents here Remi

At last

Something else..Who's lending money to whom? Germany is lending money from Central bank with a 3% interest and then they're lendin' it to us with a 6%..

How cool is that right?

And what about "money"..Where the hell the Central bank "finds" all this money? Right,from the air.. I'm not gonna pay the "air"..

Anyway we were pretty good before this so called union,we're gonna be just fine outside of it,ok i might not be able to import stuff,so fn what?

The nothern goverments made us consumers only citizens with the exception of Italy,we can change that,we used to make our own bread here 10 years ago,we still remember how to do it again.

Lets see to whom are you gonna sell your shit in a couple of years from now..

The production is gonna hit rock bottom and then just say hello to unemployment.

[bongano]

Just to let you foreign bros know what's going on here.

[bongano]

Not sure who spent all that money you guys owe down south...but WTF do I have to pay for it here up north?

To me the system of 1 money union works well (see USA) BUT one has to have 1 Central bank as well...15 governments and 1 coin just is bad bad news.

Too bad you guys are fucked up in Greece, but blame your politicians for spending what they did not have.. and blame the banks to for lending out money without collateral.

Remy

Don't forget everyone was happy to welcome Greece in the EU even if everyone knew they faked their balances to do that.
Everyone in EU, none excluded, have taken advantages, even economic, from Greece and generally southern countries being in the Euro zone.
And now that there's nothing more to eat from them you want to let them alone go towards their own destiny?
Don't get me wrong, I would be more than happy to leave the Euro zone. At least we could devalue our currency and start to grow again.
We know how to do our own works. We have skills as we always had.
I'm just wondering where are you rich northern countries going to sell your shit. Er... what shit?

[fett]

Here is what you don't do. Listen to NPR. Nothing other than to hear about a Greek doctor who has spent alot of her career practicing in 3rd world countries. She came home. She is dealing with patients just like the ones she left. I don't know.

[Vass]

Events are accelerating and we may be seeing a preference cascade in both Germany and Greece.

79% of Germans are against Eurobonds.

Syriza has gone from a 5% party to a plurality in the latest polls.

June 17th more and more feels to me like a false signpost. As we accelerate things may be settled before that date.

The prediction of 6 to 18 months are silly. Events overtake planners, and it feels like that is what is happening now.

Kostas, as I am sure you know, both roads are perilous.

I've been surprised however by the relative lack of deposit flight. Can you give any insight on this? Faced with a massive devaluation of the drachma, even if it is a 50-50 proposition, why risk it?

And when banks are seeing outflows, is the money being deposited somewhere else? From the outside it looks like outflows, but is it that Greeks are taking euro from weak banks and moving it to strong banks? In other words, is the withdrawal because of concerns over the bank or concerns about a possible departure from the euro with the attendant conversion and devaluation?

[fett]

You know what cracks me up? Turkey has spent years trying to get into the EC. Last time I checked, they are doing fine.

[KramerAmsterdam]

It's crazy men..the value of my hous eis down 10% in a year just because this crisis.

Indeed, we sell frigates to Portugal ang Greece before indeed...used ones for a little...we upgrade them for fair money, but still they go cheap ant htey're just 5-10 years old. But no one put a gun to your head to buy them. Now my retirement will go up to 67 and we have to spare 12 billion a year extra...while we have to put in 40 billion in to a Eurofund..wtf?! I just heard a bank in Spain needed 28 billion to just able to survive...because of the housing market..well that's a lot of houses in Spain prices my friends..

Either way..I am anally fucked by this big banking scam..bastages...still...I have my Kramers, my rum, my beer and I am off to the Kramer Expo in 2012 once more..just suck it up and keep spending;-)


Remy

[KramerAmsterdam]

It's crazy men..the value of my hous eis down 10% in a year just because this crisis.

Indeed, we sell frigates to Portugal ang Greece before indeed...used ones for a little...we upgrade them for fair money, but still they go cheap ant htey're just 5-10 years old. But no one put a gun to your head to buy them. Now my retirement will go up to 67 and we have to spare 12 billion a year extra...while we have to put in 40 billion in to a Eurofund..wtf?! I just heard a bank in Spain needed 28 billion to just able to survive...because of the housing market..well that's a lot of houses in Spain prices my friends..

Either way..I am anally fucked by this big banking scam..bastages...still...I have my Kramers, my rum, my beer and I am off to the Kramer Expo in 2012 once more..just suck it up and keep spending;-)


Remy

[fett]

And some of you guys question why I live in a mobilehome park. I had a great day today. Me and my neighbor listened to LP's sitting and talking and drinking beer outside. He dared me to find my Deep Purple LP. Alas, I couldn't find it. We just listened to other cool bands and contemplated. He's 54 and I am 62. We came to the conclusion that we don't get it. We never will. It's in your hands.

[amerturk]

Turkey has spent years trying to get into the EC. Last time I checked, they are doing fine.

Damn Fett, you surprise me with your knowledge at times. For those interested, Turkey did fight to get in the EU and were turned down numerous times for whatever reasons. Turkey now has the 13th highest economy in the world...without the EU scam bullshit. There are cities in Turkey right now that make Bev Hills or Paris look like slums. Incredible but true. I never would have imagined that 30 years ago when the arrogant (some) people of Europe turned there noses up to Turkey...only now to Vacation there every year. I said this when the EU started and I'll say it again....it's not going to work. It's too long to explain why and the initial reasons were great about a unified Europe, but you can't have the same standards of living in the foothills of Virginia as you do in Beverly Hills....I hope you get my point.

[fett]

I'm not as dumb as some of you think. I didn't spend almost 62 years without a sense of history. I know more than I should. That makes me stuck. And Europe. Who is going to bail out all those, what used to be independent countries, the mess that is the EU? Trillions of make believe Euros. I have a question. Are there enough Euros? Sounds like inflation to me. With a dash of austerity. If you guys can figure that out, let me know.

[amerturk]

I don't recall anyone ever saying you were dumb Fett....it's just like I said, sometimes you surprise me. Remember, the average Joe don't know shit about Europe let alone even locating it on a map.

[fett]

I know, I'm not dumb. At least the last time I checked. This is a guitar forum. However, what is going on in the world has a direct impact on guitars. The Euro is about 1.25 v the dollar and falling. That means our friends have to pay more for any guitar for sale in the USA. If I were me living in Europe, I would make hay while the sun shines.

[bongano]

It's crazy men..the value of my hous eis down 10% in a year just because this crisis.

Indeed, we sell frigates to Portugal ang Greece before indeed...used ones for a little...we upgrade them for fair money, but still they go cheap ant htey're just 5-10 years old. But no one put a gun to your head to buy them. Now my retirement will go up to 67 and we have to spare 12 billion a year extra...while we have to put in 40 billion in to a Eurofund..wtf?! I just heard a bank in Spain needed 28 billion to just able to survive...because of the housing market..well that's a lot of houses in Spain prices my friends..

Not everyone has noticed the Euro crisis started just after the 2008/09 sub primes US crisis, right? And a few noticed the connection.
How did the US try to solve that crisis? Just inflate US banks with (many) trillions of Feds dollars. So, where have those trillions gone?
Many financial analysts state they're the main cause of the raise of some of the sovereign Euro debts. You know, buying and selling a huge amount of national bonds can determine their market value significantly. And more, buying a huge amount of German ones and selling a huge amount of Greek ones can make a nation go bankrupt.
And here's the Europe fail: none of the richest countries has raised a finger to support weakest ones. Europe was not endowed of those financial defense tools it needs in these situations. So Europe has to be re-thought and re-designed to be a whole, where whole Europe MUST run to help and support those economies that are under attack from foreign speculation. You cannot say "I'm european" only when things go right. And remember (this is the main "Blind moment" of Merkel and friends) the domino effect in case one or more European national economies will be drive to bankrupt.

[KramerAmsterdam]

Hence my remark there is ussues having 1 currency and 15 independant national bank/financial offices. It's all or nothing.

The EU started to keep Deutschland and France at bay. Those 2 prime ministers/presidents back in the day arranged for that. And that's a good thing. We have been fighting for over 1000 years and it has stopped now. We did make progression. Did they take (the sysytem) too much hay on their forks , yes.. too many problems, and issues have not been resolved, due to premature expansion of the union without proper (financial) infrastructure in place.

Greece is old news. whatever happens..they will feel it and we will too.departing the EU is not an option, suck it up and reorganize the system.

The thing is...why does just 1 bank in Spain need 28nbillion while they lost money in the real estate business?? on average 150K a house..that's 180.000 houses?!?! first of all, those houses still represent value..and there's not 187K houses standing empty..this is not America..

Anyways, I ramble..my main point is 1 currency , 1 'bank' , or whatever you want to call it..it is crazy with those countries like now..like..we in Holland pay ourselves for our retirements..last time I checked..the Southern countries institutions have no money in their accounts saved up for that.A reason for all that mindless investing is the huge amounts of cash we in the north had saved up for our old days..was used to buy and lend stuff in the south...now it vaporizes..see, I ramble more.. let's burn something, drink beer and play a Kramer!

Keep rockin'brothers.

Remy

[Vass]

Well, this is fucking brilliant.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/IM...ce-3587369.php

Forgetting for a moment the relative merit or lack of merit of the comments themselves.....how is this helpful? If LaGarde feels the need to emote over the situation it would probably be best to do it behind closed doors. When she is asking Greeks to do something that many of them feel is against their interests, is it helpful to antagonize them? A warning to not count on IMF is fine, but the manner is unnecessarily obnoxious.


And respectfully the Euro crisis is not a creature of the United States. Growth & productivity differentials were always a problem. You guys in the south were an opportunity for G & F to export upward pressure on their currencies. The carrot was the cheap money.

[Bastardo]

And here's the Europe fail: none of the richest countries has raised a finger to support weakest ones.

Thats the main problem here !!!

[bongano]

And respectfully the Euro crisis is not a creature of the United States.

I wasnt to mean it's US fault.
It's -sadly- in the globalized finance nature: put a huge amount of money here and you can buy huge amount of richness there.
I meant it's Europe fault not having set the right tools to prevent that.

[bongano]

the Southern countries institutions have no money in their accounts saved up for that.A reason for all that mindless investing is the huge amounts of cash we in the north had saved up for our old days..

You really think we don't save up for our retirement?
Not only we save up during our whole life for that, but even we are able to give FREE medical assistance to everyone living here. Being them regular citizens or just tourists.
Our MAIN problem is not even the amount of sovereign debt. We have half the debt of Japan.
The main problem the 48% of our debt is in the hands of foreign speculators, read Goldman & Sachs, Soros, Morgan etc.
And at the moment we also cannot reduce this debt or buy the foreign part of it due to Merkel austerity politic, read recession. You know: not enough work means no fiscal incoming, no fiscal incoming means no money for the nation to decrease its debt.

[KramerAmsterdam]

You lost me Stefano...we were told the Southerners do not save for their retirement...

Debt we all have it seems...:-(

it sucks.

[amerturk]

Easy fix....go back to the Lira, Gilder, Franc, Peseda's, D. Mark....screw the euro!

[bongano]

Easy fix....go back to the Lira, Gilder, Franc, Peseda's, D. Mark....screw the euro!

They even don't ask us!
Just ask people and that will happen!
Nobody other than Germans wants the Euro in Europe!
Fact is that since the Euro came all the european economies (other than German's) fell by 30%. But as we cannot decide of our future, the Euro decision was taken by few burocrats in the EUC without asking to citizens and the starting currencies conversion rates stated as well by bankers.

[Bastardo]

Fact is that since the Euro came all the european economies (other than German's) fell by 30%

Here in Portugal as soon as the euro came,our growth rate dropped from 3,5%-4,5% year to zero

Also Germany was interested in granting a position in the fast growing chinese market, and they managed pull the eurostrings and managed to open europes doors wide open to all the imports you could think off, screwing everybodys in the process as we now see...

The thing that kept the party going for so long was that cheap money was made abundant for everyones...Another trap as we now see....

The Brits were smart, kudos to them

But thing are plain simple - If we get out of the euro, our escudo will be 30 % less to the euro and that will mean that we probably wont pay our debt, that is in Euros, so it will be a loose /loose situation...

Lets see what happens in Greece them probably its us on the frontline or the spanish

Greetings from the front !!!!