Pacer Classic 2010 Thread

[80'sRocker]

i've got a 2010 pacer the only problem i had was the bridge pickup it was really muddy so i swapped it out for a duncan and it screams now

[kouros]

I havent read the whole thread but some people were saying that the treble mod capacitor doesnt do anything when the volume is fully open.

Looking at the way it is wired, I have to disagree. The cap is like a bypass to the volume pots resistance so that the highs go straight to the output.

Some of you might not know but a volume pot is there to control the amount of sound from the pickups that DOESN'T get thrown away, thats why bigger resistance values for the pots gives you more sound (highs) as it is letting less sound get thrown away to the ground of the wiring. When you have your volume pot fully open, the resistence value isnt 0ohm, its 500k (if the pot's value is 500k).

I have a single coil and a humbucker on my guitar and no pots at all. Its like pickups -> switch -> output.

[inkomodo.dragon]

Let's throw some light into this matter. Here is the circuit diagram from my 2010 Pacer Classic. The only thing I'm not quite sure is the wires used from the neck pickup but since I already changed the wiring I can't be sure. The rest is exactly as it came on mine.

I've read a lot of things about the what the guitar is wired so I would like to adress those points one by one.

POTS
The stock pots are NOT LINEAR. They read A500K which means 500k logarithmic (audio) taper pots. Not only are they labelled that way but I also tested them and they ARE logarithmic.

TREBLE BLEED CIRCUIT
The treble bleed cap is effectively bypassed when the volume pot is fully open. Many guys got confused because the wiring is a bit unusual.

WEIRD CIRCUIT
You'll see that the live wires from the PUPs are soldered to the middle terminal of the volume pots which is quite rare. Usually the output should be wired to that terminal and the live wire to the left one.

If you leave your volume pots full on all the time you might aswell leave the wiring as it is. Switching it to the "proper" way wont make a difference.

[kouros]

Well.. not wanting to be a pain in the ass but that scheme is a perfect example of what I just said..

[inkomodo.dragon]

...you'll find that if one of the volume pots is fully open the left terminal is grounded and the other two terminals are sort circuited. Now tell me, How can a capacitor be of any use if both his legs are connected together?

[kouros]

Why are those two terminals short circuited? That should only happen with a "no load" pot or a standard but modded one.. when fully open, that volume por gets totally out of the circuit and you can clearly hear the difference.

[inkomodo.dragon]

I think you are mixing things up.

Standard pots, when maxed out, act as a resistor of (roughly) their nominal value. In this case it would be like a 500K-ish resistor to ground, this is the actual load that a PUP sees from any standard pot.

A "No Load" pot is another thing, it has a notch at the end which disconnects the resistive material entirely making the signal pass through like there wasn't any pot/resistor. It works essentially as a single wire so there is no load on the PUP.

On this particular circuit the capacitor is connected to both the left and middle lug so when the pot is maxed out the resistance between those two is roughly cero, bypassing the effect of the capacitor entirely.

[kouros]

What you said about the no load pot is entirely true and its the same that I said but in other words.

You're wrong in your last sentence. The capacitor conducts electric current so it doesnt matter if theres a 500k or zero resistance between the pot lugs where the capacitor is attached. You only get no sound from the guitar when the volume pot is closed because at that point there's less resistance for the current to go to ground. (Dont forget that the capacitor is wired in paralell, not in series)

With the capcitor wired this way, what will happen is that the volume pot wont work in a "logarithmic" way, it will be more like on/off. This could be fixed with an extra resistor.

I hope this clarified things a bit.

[inkomodo.dragon]

What you said about the no load pot is entirely true and its the same that I said but in other words.

No, you don't seem to understand the difference between "short circuit" and "open circuit".

The capacitor conducts electric current so it doesnt matter if theres a 500k or zero resistance between the pot lugs where the capacitor is attached.

What??!!

(Dont forget that the capacitor is wired in paralell, not in series)

I don't remember saying otherwise.

Don't take this the wrong way but I give up. At this point I think it's impossible to explain this stuff to you.


To everyone else...
I believe that anyone interested in the stock circuit will benefit from my drawing. Keep in mind that some guys said that their pots came wired "correctly" from the factory. Although I can not confirm this.

[kouros]

Yeah right, what was I thinking? lol

It does short-circuit the cap when in full volume.

[Broadbandcorpse]

Will a D-Tuna fit in the kramer lic floyd?

[DarthPhineas]

Will a D-Tuna fit in the kramer lic floyd?

it didn't for mine. I have D-Tunas in 2 other types of lic FRs, but this one wants to act up. it will install and be fine when tuning it to D... but when I go to engage it into the normal E position, it won't go up in there properly.


if I'm missing something, I'd be interested in knowing if anyone else has gotten a D-Tuna to work for them. in the meantime, I'm looking to upgrade to a real FR.


UPDATE: wanted to clarify that the problem was with the D-tuna and not the lic FR on the Kramer PC.

[Scott Granger]

I grabbed a used 2010 red PC for $199. I prefer the white, but had to take this at the price. I already have a MIG Schaller FR and a big brass block. I am thinking of upgrading the pickups and the tuners. Has anyone upgraded the tuners (esp. direct replacements)? I was thinking about some Grovers or Schallers, but I do not want to drill new holes in this thing.

The only 'problems' on this one was that the trem cavity cover was missing and the bottom strap button had been pushed in at an angle. I fixed that (the strap button, that is). I'd like to replace the cover, but that is not a big priority.

[OokraMoO]

I don't really see why you would upgrade them? The stock ones work excellent and the locking nut eliminates them once locked anyway. Seems like the money would be better spent on a D-tuna or something

[VooDoo666]

Schallers will drop right in without drilling anything.
I agree with Ookra though.

I grabbed a used 2010 red PC for $199. I prefer the white, but had to take this at the price. I already have a MIG Schaller FR and a big brass block. I am thinking of upgrading the pickups and the tuners. Has anyone upgraded the tuners (esp. direct replacements)? I was thinking about some Grovers or Schallers, but I do not want to drill new holes in this thing.

The only 'problems' on this one was that the trem cavity cover was missing and the bottom strap button had been pushed in at an angle. I fixed that (the strap button, that is). I'd like to replace the cover, but that is not a big priority.

[Blitz]

Schallers will drop right in without drilling anything.
I agree with Ookra though.

I also agree putting Schaller tuners on a double locking guitar is IMO a bit pointless. If you want to change the tuners and other hardware why not swap it all over for chrome and give it a more vintage look ala early 80's beak neck era? But save your coin and buy none branded tuners.

[DarthPhineas]

has anyone removed the treble bleeds from the PC? that might be the next mod for me on mine.


I've been trying out several different pickups the past few weeks. the PC has been the test subject, as it's pretty easy with the way I have things set up in the cavity.... it'd be easier if the neck pup had it's own route to get to the cavity without having to go through the bridge cavity. bleh!

anyway, I made a few Duncan 59/Custom hybrids and put one in a mahogany Hamer and the other in this mahogany Kramer. the PC sounded like something is taking a way from a bit of the 'sparkle'... maybe a bit of the upper-mids. where the same pickup sounds much more open in the Hamer, it sounds a bit muted in a few spots in the PC. I'd noticed it previously with a common production model pup in there that had the same thing going on. I went back and forth between several guitars and it's definitely symptomatic to the PC.

I understand that I'm not looking at guitars that are 100% identical, but a mahogany guitar with a maple board should be at least as bright, if not brighter than a mahogany with a rosewood board.

I think I'm going to start with removing the treble bleeds and maybe replacing the pots altogether.

has anyone else noticed anything similar?

[Robbaretta]

I just picked up a Baretta Special, I was wondering if the stock pickup is the same pickup that comes in the Pacer Classic.

[80's Rocker]

So, if I was going to get a white Pacer classic and keep it stock would it be worth it? I really want an 80's shredder with a neck pickup and I am trying to decide if this one would be worth it. If I would have to make a lot of upgrades for it to be worth getting like an OFR, new pickup, or else...I would probably wrather just get a Charvel San Dimas.

Big 2 things I am looking at...is tone and tuning. Does it stay in tune with tremelo abuse and is the tone muddy? Only thing I have spare I could put in it is a DSD.

[Blix]

You will be fine with just replacing the bridge pickup, and a DSD sounds excellent in it
You also need to disengage the completely useless treble bleed mod and change the volume pot. Personally I disengaged the tone pot as well, I much prefer the tone that way.

The trem is decent as is.

[80's Rocker]

Hmmm alright then, I really do want one. Do you by any chance know what kind of mods if any Satchel has done to his?

[DarthPhineas]

So, if I was going to get a white Pacer classic and keep it stock would it be worth it? I really want an 80's shredder with a neck pickup and I am trying to decide if this one would be worth it. If I would have to make a lot of upgrades for it to be worth getting like an OFR, new pickup, or else...I would probably wrather just get a Charvel San Dimas.

Big 2 things I am looking at...is tone and tuning. Does it stay in tune with tremelo abuse and is the tone muddy? Only thing I have spare I could put in it is a DSD.

for less than four bills, it's hard to go wrong. if you have the spare parts sitting around, it's worth the time to upgrade. if you have to buy them, it may end up being close to the cost of a Pacer Vintage... and then you'd have to choose if you wanted the mahogany Classic or the maple Vintage.

or if you want a serious shredder with a neck hum, drop down the serious money and get a Buddy Blaze K2H2.

however, I've been experiencing issues with the Kramer lic FR and am back to looking for an OFR to replace it. not tuning issues, just construction issues.

You will be fine with just replacing the bridge pickup, and a DSD sounds excellent in it
You also need to disengage the completely useless treble bleed mod and change the volume pot. Personally I disengaged the tone pot as well, I much prefer the tone that way.

The trem is decent as is.

also been thinking about swapping the pots. what kind of improvement did you hear when you did that? after taking the same pups out of another mahogany guitar and putting in the PC, I can hear a difference in the tone... as if a slight lack of presence and less sparkle. I dropped the treble bleeds and that helped, but I just started to think about swapping the pots this week as well.

[OokraMoO]

I did what Blix said, except I put in a Duncan Custom Custom. The pots are garbage as he says, I also got rid of the tone out of the circuit (one less pot to buy too xD) and the treble bleed is gone.

The floyd is good, but it's rock solid once it's blocked for dive only, not sure if you like that though, personally, I love it.. I hate playing floating bridges and not being able to drop D.

[DarthPhineas]

I did what Blix said, except I put in a Duncan Custom Custom. The pots are garbage as he says, I also got rid of the tone out of the circuit (one less pot to buy too xD) and the treble bleed is gone.

The floyd is good, but it's rock solid once it's blocked for dive only, not sure if you like that though, personally, I love it.. I hate playing floating bridges and not being able to drop D.

how do you like that CC in there? I finally tried one earlier this year and liked it better than expected... it's in my 80s neck-thru Stagemaster. I have a regular Custom still in the box and I've been trying to decide if I should make it a CC.

I'm wondering if the issue with it finally being rock solid once it's blocked has to do with the quality of the mounting posts? I do have a tremol-no and a brass block on it and when it's all locked down, it has sustain for days.

[OokraMoO]

I really like it. A guy over at Metroamp did lots of brown clips through a Bray modded plexi, really great sounding amp for Eds tone.

He tested DSD, JB, CC, regular Custom and a few others

I prefered the CC over the lot of them, had more squish and just sounded better to me, but all of them sounded great really!