Teach me about volume pots.

[adkima00]

I have a yo striker and want to mod it a bit. I have a new (to me) SD humbucker (Thanks Scottie!) that I want to put in it. Since I'm going to be in there with a soldering iron, I figure I might as well upgrade the volume pot. I'm going to wire it so that the humbucker and the volume is all that's active. Problem is I don't know what to look for in a volume pot. School me please!

Thanks in advance.

Matt

[TommysGs]

You will want to use a 500k pot with a humbucker.

[jovanid]

this would be a good time for some of the guitar builders to weigh in on this thread..

It seems like Ive been in the control cavity alot lately and I really dont know what the F in doing.

you get conflicticting infor on the web about volume pots. "this ones warmer than that one" etc...
use a cap here dont use one there..

and what about all the vintage guitars that everyone is so afraid to replace parts to for fear of changing the tone..

arent the parts made better than they were manufactured back in the 50s and 60s & 70s?

thanks guys

[Axeme]

You can use a 500K or a 1 Meg volume pot....I prefer the 1 Meg since you can get a bit more out of your pickups with it. A volume pot will not change the tone of your guitar as far as I know.....doesn't seem possible.

Dale

[kellcats521]

First, there are 2 types of pots - audio (or logorithmic) taper or linear taper. This referes to the slope at which the resistance changes at the pot is dialed. Our ears discern volume logorithmically, which means that a linear increase in volume does not equate to a similar linear PERCEIVED increase (so a 10 to 20db increase 'sounds' like a 2x increase in volume, but a 60 to 70db increase in volume 'sounds' like a 10x increase in volume, even though they are both only 10db increases).

What this means is that you NEED a log/audio taper pot for a volume control - a linear taper pot will not result in a smooth change in volume. I have experimented with linear taper pots as tone controls, but generally audio taper pots are the ONLY ones to use in a guitar. (Amps, and possibly guitars with active electronics will use both linear and audio, as a linear taper pot would be used on a preamp gain control)

Second, the resistance of the pot effects the tone that the guitar produces. A 250K pot will bleed off (attenuate) high frequencies more so than a 500K or 1 Meg pot, so typically brite pickups (like single coils) sound better with 250K pots while humbuckers tend to be darker when using the 250K. A 1meg pot will make a single coil shrill enough to break glass, but some humbuckers really sing with a 1meg. EMG and other active setups use 25K pots because the signal is both amped and low impedance, both of which greatly reduce the bleed effect.

Kramers that were SSH guitars varied with respect to the volume pot, but from what I've seen most of the early (pre 86) ones had 250K volume, and the newer ones had 500K. IMO, the best sounding SSH setup is the VVT with (2) 250K pots (master tone and neck/middle volume) and 1 500K (bridge vol).
Some early pacers had this setup with the VVT control IIRC....

[ragecaj]

Good info. What about capacitors? What value would you recommend?

First, there are 2 types of pots - audio (or logorithmic) taper or linear taper. This referes to the slope at which the resistance changes at the pot is dialed. Our ears discern volume logorithmically, which means that a linear increase in volume does not equate to a similar linear PERCEIVED increase (so a 10 to 20db increase 'sounds' like a 2x increase in volume, but a 60 to 70db increase in volume 'sounds' like a 10x increase in volume, even though they are both only 10db increases).

What this means is that you NEED a log/audio taper pot for a volume control - a linear taper pot will not result in a smooth change in volume. I have experimented with linear taper pots as tone controls, but generally audio taper pots are the ONLY ones to use in a guitar. (Amps, and possibly guitars with active electronics will use both linear and audio, as a linear taper pot would be used on a preamp gain control)

Second, the resistance of the pot effects the tone that the guitar produces. A 250K pot will bleed off (attenuate) high frequencies more so than a 500K or 1 Meg pot, so typically brite pickups (like single coils) sound better with 250K pots while humbuckers tend to be darker when using the 250K. A 1meg pot will make a single coil shrill enough to break glass, but some humbuckers really sing with a 1meg. EMG and other active setups use 25K pots because the signal is both amped and low impedance, both of which greatly reduce the bleed effect.

Kramers that were SSH guitars varied with respect to the volume pot, but from what I've seen most of the early (pre 86) ones had 250K volume, and the newer ones had 500K. IMO, the best sounding SSH setup is the VVT with (2) 250K pots (master tone and neck/middle volume) and 1 500K (bridge vol).
Some early pacers had this setup with the VVT control IIRC....

[kellcats521]

Good info. What about capacitors? What value would you recommend?

It depends.....

Guitars generally use 4 different cap values: 0.001, 0.020, 0.050, and 0.100 (you will occasionally see some variation in the actual value, i.e. 0.047 instead of 0.050 with different vendors)

0.001 is only typically used on a volume pot to bleed treble to the output (amp) as the volume is lowered - it keeps a pickup from going too dark as you back off the volume.

0.020, 0.050, and 0.100 are used to bleed treble to ground (out of the signal path) as you turn down the tone control. The 'correct' value is a matter of personal preference, and IS effected by the value of the tone pot. Historically, the 0.050 has been used with a 250K pot while a 0.020 has been used with a 500K pot. The 0.100 is generally used only in bass guitars. The tone circuit is what is called an RC circuit (resistor/capacitor), and it is dynamic - each component's value effects the other's effect on the output.

Remember, these parts are cheap, and easy to change out. Buy a handfull ot 2 of different components and find out what you like. As an example, someone posted above that they really like the sound produced by using a 1meg volume pot - I tried one in a ProAxe with a pretty high output Duncan (TB-6 I think), and I didn't like it at all....

[webbhead13]

This forum gets better everyday!!

Man I have been trying to find the difference between audio and linear taper pots for a week now.
guess I couldve just asked here!

thanks for the great info!!

Bill

[kellcats521]

Oh yea - regarding the idea that vintage pots sound sweeter than new ones -

For the most part, folks try to keep vintage parts in vintage guitars only to keep them original, or appear to be original. Pots are date coded when they're built, and collectors often use them as part of the process to both accurately data the build timeframe of a guitar, and to verify it's originality or lack thereof.

Soooo, a working pot with a 1959 build date might be worth hundreds of $$ to a guy with a $80K '59 Les Paul that has a fizzled or broken volume pot.
But the 'worth' of the pot has NOTHING to do with it producing better tone.....

[pel666]

My simple rules:

-If you use the volume only max on and max off, don't use caps
-Use a good pot, I always use CTS.
-HB, take 500K or 1M, Single 250K
-Short leads, and cavity shielding (use copperfoil to create a Faraday's cage)
-Star ground (tie all grounds to one single location, and feed that to the jack)
plus schematics http://www.guitarelectronics.com

[kurenai]

whats the difference between a pots and b pots?

the guy at the ESP shop was trying to explain it to me, but i didnt really understand.

--------------------------------------

scratch that i figured it out b = linear.
i like the concept of linear better, but each to their own.

[KramerTamer]

Sometimes it really blows my mind at the knowledge you guys have!!! I just learned a bunch. Thanks Kellcats and pel..........

[Godzilla]

Second, the resistance of the pot effects the tone that the guitar produces. A 250K pot will bleed off (attenuate) high frequencies more so than a 500K or 1 Meg pot, so typically brite pickups (like single coils) sound better with 250K pots while humbuckers tend to be darker when using the 250K. A 1meg pot will make a single coil shrill enough to break glass, but some humbuckers really sing with a 1meg. EMG and other active setups use 25K pots because the signal is both amped and low impedance, both of which greatly reduce the bleed effect.

Hmmm...... I wonder if a 250k pot in my F1000 instead of a 500k will take away some of the tinny sound.
And will this make the bottom end sound muddy?????
I believe a trip to the electronics store may be in order today

Mark

[Godzilla]

I went to a music store today and bought a 250k pot.
Came home and played the guitar for a little while at different volumes and my clean sound and 2 different distortion sounds I have programmed.
Took the 500k pot out and installed the 250k pot and played the same as I did with the 500.
There is a noticeable difference in the tone of the guitar, not near as much as I would like(SD JB will cure that someday), and the bottom end does not sound muddy.
It only cost me $6.00 for the pot and 20 minutes for me to swap them.
I surprised my wife by only coming home with the volume pot and a dozen picks.No guitars, no straps no cords. I got what I went to get and got out.
Now that's restraint

Mark

[kellcats521]

I went to a music store today and bought a 250k pot.
Came home and played the guitar for a little while at different volumes and my clean sound and 2 different distortion sounds I have programmed.
Took the 500k pot out and installed the 250k pot and played the same as I did with the 500.
There is a noticeable difference in the tone of the guitar, not near as much as I would like(SD JB will cure that someday), and the bottom end does not sound muddy.
It only cost me $6.00 for the pot and 20 minutes for me to swap them.
I surprised my wife by only coming home with the volume pot and a dozen picks.No guitars, no straps no cords. I got what I went to get and got out.
Now that's restraint

Mark

It is good to experiment - you will see that the output of a pickup also interacts with the pot value in that very high output pickups like a JB will really squeal with a lower resistance (250K) tone pot, but that same 250K tone pot actually helps a weaker humbucker.....

Also, to reply to another post, a linear pot may APPEAR to be a better concept, it DOESN'T work - it is only a few $$ to try it, so maybe it's worth trying.

The fact of the matter is that volume increases are registered by your ear in a logorithymic (NOT LINEAR) manner, so if you actually want a volume or tone pot to WORK in a LINEAR manner (i.e. the volume is 1/2 as loud in the middle of the pot's range vs the max), you need a LOG pot (LOG response @ ear adjusted using a LOG pot = linear change in volume) . This may seem confusing, but it is what it is.

[Jammin'Jarhead]

http://www.guitarelectronics.com[/url]

Just a stupid note...my office is literally about 500 feet from the store front on that website! - cool place!

Second point - This is some great info , I'm learning a ton!

[shepo]

I have a nightswan, that sounded like crap when I bought it used. Tried new pickups.. still crap.. No power, real muddy. For some reason I checked the pot.. 10 K.. I was saying to my self WTF ?? LOL..
Put in the correct pot. WOW.. huge difference. Pot values do matter.

[GtarShark]

Well you see when you've got a volume of pot, that means you've got quite a good bit of it. Uh...wait, er uh, nevermind.


Lee

[liberty86]

wow, this really is great info. I have had a problem with my Liberty volume pots since new. The axe has two seymour duncan pickups JB/JN with dedicated tone and volume pots plus a master volume pot. Problem is the master volume just comes in all at once - as soon as you touch the master pot in everything goes to full volume.
Is it simply a question of replacing the master pot with a new 500 or is there likely to be something additional that should be looked at? I did have a coil tap fitted at the time of purchase.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated

[heem6]

Hi,
I've been debating whether to replace the pots that came with my Yo Striker. The volume pot is full-size at least, but has a B stamped in front of the value. The push/pull pot is a mini-pot.

I had an X2N put in, and I do like the output, but the tone hasn't knocked me over. It sounds ... harsh?

I usually do my own wiring, but this time I let Jim at Precision Guitar handle it because I didn't feel like dealing with the push/pull switch. I could probably get thru that, but...

I have a San Dimas replica that I wired up with CTS 500k pots and a JB. It sounded fantastic. Then I switched out for a push/pull switch ( with a mini-pot ). It didn't sound nearly as good, and I'm pretty sure it was that mini-pot.

Guitar Fetish makes a push-pull with a full-sized pot on it, and I would get a CTS pot and a full-sized p/p from GF if I thought it would improve the tone.

Does anyone know what quality the pots are on the Yo Strikers?

[ELEMENTLE]

My Kramer 100 series body that I bought off Ebay came with 250k pots installed. Replaced them with some I had in another guitar that are smaller in size but unlabeled as to the resistance. Guitar tone is full and both the Humbucker and single coil sound good as is. May experiment with 1meg.

[Alexander]

I couldn't believe the difference it made when I swapped my old (tiny, crappy) volume pot out for a nice big CTS audio taper one - all of a sudden it's useable and a lot "clearer" if that makes sense.

Slightly related, always use proper Switchcraft jack sockets - other ones aren't the exact size due to copyright issues.

[TommySixGun]

I just installed a Dimarzio PAF Mo Joe, a new CTS pot and a new canon jack.

Like the volume knob, mate?


Tommy

[gvanh1]

I finally swapped out the 250K pot (original) in my 110 for a 500K. I also put in a .001uf treble bleed cap. All I have to say is WOW what a difference.

I also tacked in the treble bleed cap into my Imperial. I like the change. Definitely brighter when the volume knob is turned down.

The bleeder cap addition is a great, simple mod.

If you don't like it, it is easy to remove...

[mickeystorm]

Nothing to add tech wise, but a little trick for you guys who do volume swells: wire the pot backwards. Instead of pulling your hand up to a swell, you push it down. Helluva lot easier.

Oh and SHEPO with the 10k pot: that axe probably had a EMG active pups in there before you got it. They use 10 to 25k pots I believe.