When are the 2010 Kramers coming out

[mmmtacos]

I forget:scratchhe

It's this month is it not?

[Pacer Guy]

last I heard they were going to start shipping this month and should be available sometime next month :thumbsup Hope so :)

[bkeen]

Probably will make 5 or 6 available this year and 5 or 6 next year.... ;) :D

:whistle

:thumbsup

[mmmtacos]

Thanks:thumbsup

I think my ADD is getting worse as I get older:D

Or maybe it was all those adult beverages and............other substances( a'hem:-x ) WHen I was younger:D

[EVHSHREDDERF1000]

do we know the specs on the classic kramer, the one that looks like a pacer imp???:scratchhe :scratchhe

[KramerUK]

Yep :)

[EVHSHREDDERF1000]

what are they?:scratchhe :scratchhe

[KramerUK]

Sorry just had to hold you in suspense a little longer :thumbsup

[EVHSHREDDERF1000]

Body wood????:scratchhe

[Midnight_Highway]

We've heard it's mahogany.

[Bluesman001]

You would think to keep prices down they would have gone with alder or basswood or something else?

[Rick S]

Mahogany generally isn't an expensive wood. Unless of course you are using the rare stuff.


You would think to keep prices down they would have gone with alder or basswood or something else?

[Vengeance]

I keep seeing pics of the white. I'd really like to see the candy red I'm getting :)

[bkeen]

Mahogany generally isn't an expensive wood. Unless of course you are using the rare stuff.

There are all kinds of mahogany. Not all mahogany is good for guitar building and some is just dead as can be.

:thumbsup

[Midnight_Highway]

I love mahogany, so pretty excited about this development actually. Throw in a Dimarzio Super Distortion and it's chunky rock heaven.. :thumbsup

[_xxx_]

It's very unprobable that it's real Mahagony, it'll probably be "some wood from Mahagony family" like Nato or such. Maybe Kevin can let us know.

[bkeen]

At the price they are selling for as long as it is real wood and not ply it is a deal! ;) :D

:thumbsup

[mmmtacos]

Don't you mean Multi-ply Resonant Bodies?:bananahea

[Midnight_Highway]

It's very unprobable that it's real Mahagony, it'll probably be "some wood from Mahagony family" like Nato or such. Maybe Kevin can let us know.

You're right, probably Nato or another Mahogany-family wood native to Asia. :) Here's to hoping for the best..:thumbsup

[_xxx_]

Nato isn't necessarily bad, just tonaly different. No objections for that price.

[Rick S]

Well, its almost a 1/4 through October. Any word at all about the '10 Kramers?:scratchhe Or is it 'business as usual'. You know, next month. Next month. Next month. I think they'll be out next month.:D

[bkeen]

Never thought I would say this but I miss Music - YO!

:banghead

[mmmtacos]

Never thought I would say this but I miss Music - YO!

:banghead

Why? So you could at least look at the pics of guitars they don't have any of?:happy1

[bkeen]

Why? So you could at least look at the pics of guitars they don't have any of?:happy1

Yes and YO actually had a line that lasted more than 3 months at a time and they had stock 8 out of 12 months! ;) :D

:thumbsup

[amerturk]

Maybe Kevin can work out something here for the forum on the 1st runs. I'm sure they would sell a shitload. I know Tomi is going to sell them, but I just wish they had a normal webpage and not a myspace link.

Kevin?

[TommySixGun]

Never thought I would say this but I miss Music - YO!

:banghead

Bruce

That's music-yo to my ears

:jump

[Rick S]

They would sell a shitload. Speacking of webpages what about the Kramer website. How about updating that bich!:thumbsup


Maybe Kevin can work out something here for the forum on the 1st runs. I'm sure they would sell a shitload. I know Tomi is going to sell them, but I just wish they had a normal webpage and not a myspace link.

Kevin?

[bkeen]

Oh man are the natives are getting restless! :D

:thumbsup

[mmmtacos]

:bananahea Power to the People:bananahea

[brokrguy]

The restless are going native...

Bob's ADD is obviously back under control - he's back on the "WHERE THE HELL ARE THE NEW KRAMERS?" wagon...:D

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc335/brokrguy/newkramerkitty.jpg

I wonder if Epi's "14 New Models" rollout has anything to do w/ the Kramers getting pushed back...?

After all, they wouldn't want Pacer Classics cutting into the sales of this masterpiece:

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc335/brokrguy/graveyard-disciple.jpg


I know I'm DYING for one...:happy1

Seriously, Epi is their #2 brand, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is why the new Kramers are getting pushed back...

:thumbsup

[JGB]

Yikes, the Graveyard Disciple. LMAO Is that for real?

[brokrguy]

Oh yeah, it's real...I don't have enough imagination to come up w/ something that stupid :D . There are some pix of Zakk playing one (or, more likely, a custom Gibby-made version) floating around. Go to their website - it was one of their 14 new models they announced last month...

:thumbsup

[Kannibal]

I forget:scratchhe

It's this month is it not?

2012 ....You were WARNED

[Kannibal]

I wonder if Epi's "14 New Models" rollout has anything to do w/ the Kramers getting pushed back...?

After all, they wouldn't want Pacer Classics cutting into the sales of this masterpiece:

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc335/brokrguy/graveyard-disciple.jpg


I know I'm DYING for one...:happy1


:thumbsup

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[KramerUK]

Kevin now would be a good time to rest some nerves (good few of us have deposits with Tomi on the Pacer Classics)...........

[shtdaprdtr]

:scratchhe ...maybe the 2010 kramers will come out in 2010?:idea

[KramerBassFan]

:whistle :ninja

[Rick S]

:poke


:scratchhe ...maybe the 2010 kramers will come out in 2010?:idea

[maidenfriek71]

Yikes, the Graveyard Disciple. LMAO Is that for real?

Yes it's real, looks like :bs to us but I would bet they sell a ton of them :yikes.I'm betting we won't see any of the new Kramers till after the new year :arrg :banghead Lot's of potential profits going right down the drain for the Kramer line if there not out before christmas:nono

[VooDoo666]

They will be here soon. Some minor production delays on the factory side. It's all good, just a little behind.
New website launches Nov.1st. too.

Trust me.....we want them here faster than you guys do! hehe. Good news is, this isn't some type of short runs or limited etc.... This is the new line and it will be expanding. Tons of stuff going on I can't talk about, but Kramer is VERY busy.

[Rick S]

^^^Good news!^^^:thumbsup

[VooDoo666]

Oh yeah.... there's a new article (same as the kramer site) for the Pacer Classic on Gibson's site now...... give it some clicks and opinions please.... the more hits the better.

[Rick S]

I like the layout on the Gibson much better.:thumbsup

[Rick S]

Well, its now the end of October. Any news on the new stuff? Its been awhile.

[KramerUK]

Starting to give up hope a bit now, just hoping they start to ship out for Christmas now :-x

[maidenfriek71]

Starting to give up hope a bit now, just hoping they start to ship out for Christmas now :-x

+1 Well since there having issues at the factory it has me concerned.I think I will wait and see how reviews are before I drop money on one.To bad cause the night v looks promising.

[bkeen]

SOSDY!

:whistle

[kramerSquatch]

+1...I dont think these will see the light of day this year.

[VooDoo666]

+1 Well since there having issues at the factory it has me concerned.I think I will wait and see how reviews are before I drop money on one.To bad cause the night v looks promising.

For some insight:

There were earthquakes and typhoons all around the factory in the past couple months. Supply chains and shipping abilities in that area were greatly inhibited for a short time. No problems...just a little behind. Things are looking really good, new website up next week.

[Rick S]

^^^Cool!^^^:thumbsup

[helocene]

VooDoo666, any chance at seeing a Custom again?
Would really love to get one of these.

[mmmtacos]

You know those customs don't pop up very often any more. I guess that shows they are great guitars:)

[bkeen]

For some insight:

There were earthquakes and typhoons all around the factory in the past couple months. Supply chains and shipping abilities in that area were greatly inhibited for a short time. No problems...just a little behind. Things are looking really good, new website up next week.

So, the US models are being held up by typhoons? :D ;)

:thumbsup

[kramerSquatch]

I dunno if I buy the Typhoon excuse. If these were intended to be released in the third quarter of 2009 then they would have already been completed and shipped to the U.S. for Quality Control and inspection by now. They would have been completed and shipped will before the typhoons and the earthquake hit. Besides...new Epiphones have already hit...they would have been affected as well

[VooDoo666]

VooDoo666, any chance at seeing a Custom again?
Would really love to get one of these.

The Customs have been changed over to the Assaults. Little different, but as close as it will get to the Customs.

[maidenfriek71]

I dunno if I buy the Typhoon excuse. If these were intended to be released in the third quarter of 2009 then they would have already been completed and shipped to the U.S. for Quality Control and inspection by now. They would have been completed and shipped will before the typhoons and the earthquake hit. Besides...new Epiphones have already hit...they would have been affected as well

+1 I think there is more going on that we don't know about,who knows but glad I didn't put a deposit down on one.Maybe they will be out by the first of the year,then again maybe not.I will wait till they hit and see some reviews before I get one,to bad there losing out big time with the delays there having.

[KramerBassFan]

I don't get why everybody pretends to know so much about shipping guitars and delays and Epiphones inside production, and whatever the heck else..... but Kevin Actually works there. :thumbsup

If you actually own a shop, fine. But still.... lets not all gang up on Kevin, eh? :nono

IMHO he gets alot of flak, if not directly, many imply it....

All I can say is, keep up the good work dude. I firmly believe something is better than nothing.

[bkeen]

VooDoo666, any chance at seeing a Custom again?
Would really love to get one of these.


If you want a Custom just buy an ESP EC 1000 Deluxe. It will cost you more but I believe they are built at the same plant the Customs were. Almost identical guitars.

And they are in stock! ;)

:happy1

[VooDoo666]

I don't get why everybody pretends to know so much about shipping guitars and delays and Epiphones inside production, and whatever the heck else..... but Kevin Actually works there. :thumbsup

If you actually own a shop, fine. But still.... lets not all gang up on Kevin, eh? :nono

IMHO he gets alot of flak, if not directly, many imply it....

All I can say is, keep up the good work dude. I firmly believe something is better than nothing.

Thanks bro.... No worries though. I just wish my wallet was as thick as my skin. :money
Can't blame anyone for getting bitchy.... I have a Disciple Bass with my name on it.... I am as eager as anyone for the new stuff to get in everyone's hands.

[mmmtacos]

Keep up the good work young man:urock

[kramerSquatch]

IM not busting on Kevin. I know these arent his decisions to make and that he is just the messenger. But I still dont buy the typhoon stuff. That was last month. The Kramers have been "teasers" all year.

[Fopasko]

[QUOTE=VooDoo666;376216]They will be here soon. Some minor production delays on the factory side. It's all good, just a little behind.
New website launches Nov.1st. too.

when is the new site launching?:toast

[_xxx_]

Yesterday? What's up?

[j-ozzy]

still no new site:scratchhe

[VooDoo666]

We don't work Sundays........ up this evening.

[Fopasko]

SWEEEEEET!!!!!!:urock

[j-ozzy]

looking forward to it:thumbsup

[VooDoo666]

looking forward to it:thumbsup

It is up..... We have a lot more to add to it over the next couple weeks. Putting together some cool model zoom features and more cool stuff for the media page as well as more model photos and things like that.... but we did launch it as promised.
:)

[NightRider]

Nice job Kevin:thumbsup :urock

[VooDoo666]

Nice job Kevin:thumbsup :urock


More than just me, but thank you.

I think the Forum will be functional in just a little bit too.

[bkeen]

? Using the forum to solicit members for a competing forum. Anyone undermining the forum?s unity is in violation of the bylaws.


:yikes

:happy1


For what it is worth, the old site was much much better!

I hope my eyesight comes back....

:thumbsup

[mmmtacos]

I'm member #4....woot:whistle

[VooDoo666]

:yikes

:happy1


For what it is worth, the old site was much much better!

I hope my eyesight comes back....

:thumbsup

Can always wear sunglasses while viewing it :D

The graphics will change again before too long. It matches all the new hangtags and posters now though! hehe.

We're going to keep it fresh with lots of constant tinkering.

About the forum thing.... Was just heading off some posts about it not working... We weren't sure if we were going to get the bug out of it this quickly.

[mmmtacos]

Does this situation apply to the intent of that rule though?

Just askin:whistle

[bkeen]

I'm member #4....woot:whistle

Bob you are as loyal as a two dollar crack whore!


:happy1

You know I am just kidding, right bro?

:thumbsup

[Midnight_Highway]

I think it's bullshit that there's a "forum" section of that new kramerguitars site. Look at www.charvel.com , no "forum" section there. :poke

George

[brokrguy]

Hell, yeah, George! :arrg

Plus...when I tried to create a user name, it wouldn't let me...uh...I mean...if I would have...er, uh...never mind.

Nice start - I hope a lot more content gets added quickly. From the looks of the dealer lists, I need to move to Italy or Spain to get a first-hand look at the new line-up...

:thumbsup

[kramerSquatch]

Those things wont be out until at least March 2010

[BamaKramer]

Hell, yeah, George! :arrg

Plus...when I tried to create a user name, it wouldn't let me...uh...I mean...if I would have...er, uh...never mind.

Nice start - I hope a lot more content gets added quickly. From the looks of the dealer lists, I need to move to Italy or Spain to get a first-hand look at the new line-up...

:thumbsup

we gotta pray to have the Kramers down here Shane!

:help :help :help

[brokrguy]

we gotta pray to have the Kramers down here Shane!

:help :help :help

Yep, yep - just like anything else, Trey - we're the last to know and the last to show. That's why I never got into flannel, army boots, and unwashed hair during the "Grunge" period - I didn't hear about it until 2003!!! :whistle

:thumbsup

[KramerUK]

Mmmm, well glad some people like it. Just get the Classic out so I don't have to keep reading this thread!!
Have to be honest, soon as I've bought my Classic or Striker whichever surfaces first, that'll be me done with Kramer, its not our market anymore, understand why they have taken the direction but it doesn't interest me with the exception of the 80's throwbacks.

[bkeen]

George, I really wouldn't worry about it much. It will get attention for a few weeks and then maybe when the 20 guitars actually hit the US shores for another week but then all will be quiet for another year! ;) :D


:thumbsup

[switchone]

I called RT1 music in CT, (closet kramer dealer) and they said they because of the Typhoon in indonesia they won't see any kramer untill maybe Christmas if they are lucky. Has anyone heard of this?

[VooDoo666]

George, I really wouldn't worry about it much. It will get attention for a few weeks and then maybe when the 20 guitars actually hit the US shores for another week but then all will be quiet for another year! ;) :D


:thumbsup

Add ya a couple more zeros and its still not as many that are on the way.

The typhoon and quakes in that region messed up the factories parts shipments and it delayed things a bit. On the water now last I heard.

[bkeen]

Add ya a couple more zeros and its still not as many that are on the way.

The typhoon and quakes in that region messed up the factories parts shipments and it delayed things a bit. On the water now last I heard.


0020? ;) :D Drift wood? :D

J/K Kevin...

Good luck with your rollout...

:thumbsup

[Midnight_Highway]

George, I really wouldn't worry about it much.

Yeah, you're right Bruce. Again, Gibson will do things their way..whether it's right or not. I too would just like to finally see the guitars, including the one I have a deposit on. :banghead :banghead I just hope Somali pirates don't intervene.

[bkeen]

Kevin, is there any current plans on making any more US Reissues in the near future?

That is all I want to know and I will shut up!! ;) :D

:thumbsup

[SamanthaM]

I don't know when the regular righty ones are coming out....

But I can tell you when the new lefty ones are.....

Uh - Never...... Does never work for you? :happy1

Because it doesn't work for me. :-x

[sticktrix1]

So much to say.... soooo little that i can't say :-x

I am as eager as you alllll for these to come out....

trust me.................................................

[PickAttack]

So much to say.... soooo little that i can't say :-x

I am as eager as you alllll for these to come out....

trust me.................................................
How many Kramers will we have to bribe you with in order to talk?:whistle

[brokrguy]

So much to say.... soooo little that i can't say :-x

I am as eager as you alllll for these to come out....

trust me.................................................

So little that you can't say? Does that mean that there's a lot you CAN say? Well, what do you say...? :D

:thumbsup

[halo71]

So much to say.... soooo little that i can't say :-x

I am as eager as you alllll for these to come out....

trust me.................................................

Wow long time no see.....how ya been? How's the boys at Gipsun been treatin' ya? :whistle

[kramerSquatch]

Yeah...long time no see. Almost like, "Hey your a Kramer endorsee, although you havent been on in almost 9 months...can you get on Kramer Forum and say something to reassure these guys?"

LOL :lol

[sticktrix1]

Haha, welll actually up until this morning i hadn't heard anything really... i've known as much if not less than you guys.
im in aussie so its a loonng way away from the heartland of kramer.

but... i heard from a little birdy....
and they're getting very very close. VERY VERY!


So im definately getting excited now!!!:headbang




Yeah...long time no see. Almost like, "Hey your a Kramer endorsee, although you havent been on in almost 9 months...can you get on Kramer Forum and say something to reassure these guys?"

LOL :lol

[sticktrix1]

How are ya dude!! it has been a long time!


i have been keeping an eye on the forum, its still my home page. :) but i just haven't been saying anything much lately.

eh...............

i'll just say its been very quiet......... but good things happening very soon!!
can't wait!!!




Wow long time no see.....how ya been? How's the boys at Gipsun been treatin' ya? :whistle

[BeN5150]

2010!

[PacerMedic]

2012 prediction:

Kramer will follow through on one of their predictions. The other 300 will remain unfounded rumors. Of all the drivel, the prediction that an overseas company is handling manufacturing duties for Kramer "proper" will be shown to be true as Sammick will somewhat prosper.

Is that how Gibson is avoiding that possibility of a law suit?

Honestly, aside from the massive ugly factor, Gibson should have had these made at their China Epiphone plant. There would have been a much better chance of them being a decent looking and playing abortion. :toast

[kramerSquatch]

I gotta think that if these were indeed on their way and about to be released, there would be some type of "Media Push" to hype them. Also, retailers would be taking pre orders. I know of one that was...but there would be more than one.

[KramerBassFan]

:scratchhe

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever to me?
:scratchhe :scratchhe

[VooDoo666]

I couldn't decipher it either...oh well.

They are coming....period.

and since you hate them all anyway Medic...what difference does it make to you?

There are reviews and adds popping out in the EU very soon. I will post links and let you know when they publish.
Stateside....you will see adds and the like coming out shortly as well.
and far before 2012.......I will be happy to bet anyone a friendly beer wager :)

[80's Rocker]

I saw on the GC website that there were a couple Kramers there now. I heard that they wont be stocking them in the stores though, is there a reason or do any of you guys know? Also...will they be getting any of the new Kramers or are you alowed to even say? I actually kind of want to try out the Pacer classic.

[PacerMedic]

and since you hate them all anyway Medic...what difference does it make to you?

...I will be happy to bet anyone a friendly beer wager :)

Kevin, I wasn't addressing you personally and my strong feelings are in no way intended for you, but since you ask...

The new product is a farce of the Music YO product, let alone the "glory days" of Kramer. All I'm asking is why does Gibson insist on forcing the brand down the toilet? Let it die or sell it to one of the guys that would do the name justice.

I'm not asking for a ticket to the 80's; it's just that an effort consisting of one decent quality guitar and the rest of the line belongs in the Penney's catalog is hardly a comeback in the eyes of any Kramer entusiast.

Make it change. I'll buy you a keg of your brand. :toast

[kramerSquatch]

:scratchhe

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense what so ever to me?
:scratchhe :scratchhe

What do you not understand? Im saying that if these were indeed on there way to America. Ready to be sold. Then there would be more talk about them, more advertising, more hype....I mean more than one guy who keeps coming on to a Forum website and saying "just keep waiting."

[KramerBassFan]

My bad. I meant that in response to PacerMedic's post. Yours made perfect sense to me. :) And my post just happened to get posted after yours...

[kramerSquatch]

No Problem. I just wanted to make sure I wasnt confusing anyone.

[PacerMedic]

What did you not understand about my post?



My bad. I meant that in response to PacerMedic's post. Yours made perfect sense to me. :) And my post just happened to get posted after yours...

[sieteML]

2009 is almost over.

maybe by 2010 they mean december 2010

[kramerSquatch]

Dude..those things arent coming out this year. If you have G.A.S., you might as well find another brand or a nice vintage Kramer.

[amerturk]

Time to stir feathers here....

Some come on here to pimp shit that never happens. If Kramer/Gibson or whoever is running the show was serious, they would first offer them here before the street models came out...even do a special limited run for members only.

I'm to the point now that I'm limited on my Kramers (unless it's a GKG) if it doesn't have burn marks on it and it was made before 1990, then I'll look at it.

The last batch of reissues are exempt from that comment.

[maidenfriek71]

Dude..those things arent coming out this year. If you have G.A.S., you might as well find another brand or a nice vintage Kramer.

On the boat now :D I was looking at the night v for my son but since it's not gonna be here by christmas Ibanez got my money.

[kramerSquatch]

Yeah I was hoping for one of the LP shaped Kramers but bought a Gibson Les Paul Standard the other day. It got here while I was outta town and I just opened it tonight when I got home.

[Rick S]

Hello..........................Anyone home???:-|

[brokrguy]

"Home?...ome?....ome?....mmm?"

(That's my "echo sound", Rick :D )

No news is...uh...well...pretty much the norm, eh?

I guess my Nite V funds will be going towards a Crusader Deluxe...

:thumbsup

[Rick S]

Is anyone home?:scratchhe Seriously, absolutly nothing for a month. They must have boarded up the windows 'eh. Sheesh, incredible.:-x

[VooDoo666]

We're home.

Little update.

New stuff hit Japanese stores this week. Should have photos and an article on the website soon.

Guitarre Total (Total Guitar Spain) just came out with the review on the Pacer Classic, it got a 93 out of 100 points and was compared to guitars costing 4 times as much. Should have some snippets from that on the site Friday evening.

Disciple bass and the Assault 220 FR have reviews coming out in January....which will coincide with the U.S. release of the new stuff.

[Fopasko]

Thanks for all you do, even though you dont have to Kevin:thumbsup :urock

even though some of the guys dont seem like they care, everyone appreciats what your doin for Kramer KEEP IT UP BRO!!!
:toast

[Midnight_Highway]

Kevin, thanks--what about the guitars hitting US shores? Many of us have had a deposit on one since August, expecting them to arrive in September..

George

[PacerMedic]

George: Buy yourself a Sammick and cut out the middle man. Honestly, what else is there? A logo?

Fopasko: There are quite a few of us who are not willing to be counted among those who can't wait to get a new "Kramer".

Logo idea: "Kramer" Three months behind. :D

Kevin: No offense guy, but this is rediculous. The classic is good, show us more of those things you can't talk about... We'll be waiting for more real examples of what the company can do. Pulling the plug on the American series was a plain, bad move.

[kramer.geetar]

I don't think they pulled the plug on the USA Series....as far as I've read anyways.

[kramerSquatch]

Add ya a couple more zeros and its still not as many that are on the way.

The typhoon and quakes in that region messed up the factories parts shipments and it delayed things a bit. On the water now last I heard.

One would think they would have been here by now if they were in the water at the end of October.

[bkeen]

I don't think they pulled the plug on the USA Series....as far as I've read anyways.

Read between the lines. People with contact inside Kramer have made some subtle comments to that effect.

I asked point blank on the previous page if there were any plans of making more US models which was never answered.

:thumbsup

[VooDoo666]

George: Buy yourself a Sammick and cut out the middle man. Honestly, what else is there? A logo?

Fopasko: There are quite a few of us who are not willing to be counted among those who can't wait to get a new "Kramer".

Logo idea: "Kramer" Three months behind. :D

Kevin: No offense guy, but this is rediculous. The classic is good, show us more of those things you can't talk about... We'll be waiting for more real examples of what the company can do. Pulling the plug on the American series was a plain, bad move.



Real examples...like the entire line on the website aren't? We just put up a whole new website for no reason...we just wanted to spend time designing it because we had nothing else to do. I'm sorry if you don't like anything but classic Kramer...because it's not the only designs we want or are going to do. The classic stuff is going to expand as are the other new designs.

USA line isn't pulled, but it has been suspended for the time being...if you got to see the numbers on new guitars selling in $1000-$2000 price range for the past year, you would understand why....more people talk about buying USA made higher end guitars than are actually buying one.

If you had to invest your money to grow a product..would you do it in the area of less growth in the current marketplace..or would you put it in the area where the market is moving??

As for things being behind...yeah...it does suck and we all wish they were in stores right now...but if you look at the post it shows that Kramer isn't idle and things are coming in and there will be more Kramers in stores worldwide than there has been for a decade.

[Fopasko]

im not here to make anyone mad but to anyone who just wants to bitch about the new line-up STFU!!
and as said before why make a product that won't sell when you can make something that the majority of the buyers will like and buy the kids (the majority) dont want the old kramer style, the new kramers fits the wants of the newer players so therefor why would anybody make a product that most of the people dont want which would the smarter choice ... its common sence

and if you "the minority" don't like them DONT BUY THEM and quit your bitchin

period

JMO for ya so dont get all pissy

[Rick S]

^^^So its a fact that the majority of guitar buyers are kids? Really? And if so, so what? Hey, I dig some of the new stuff Kramer has to offer. I dig the Assults and the Strikers. But I don't buy into the "make what the kids want man" bs. If thats so true then why are companies like Collins and Reverend in business? I don't see many punk ass kids guitars by either. Yet they are still around. Whatever. I just want to see product by Kramer soon. Ya gotta admit, the delays are cronic. And I don't want to STFU. So FU!;)

[80's Rocker]

I like the Classic series the best (15 here) and I am actually excited about it being released. The only things that get me about the other ones are 2 things....the logo, is the biggest thing that gets me...and the inlays. Other than that I think the striker and the vangaurd are pretty cool. I somewhat like the Nite V but I wont lie, I am not a big fan of the assault or Pariah no matter what they do to them....

[_xxx_]

One would think they would have been here by now if they were in the water at the end of October.

Nah, after they're out of the water you need to dry them thoroughly first and that takes about 6 months or so...



Kevin: more Kramers in stores than the last decade is easy, just one single guitar would suffice for that ;)

[Fopasko]

im not gonna argue with anyone all i said was my personal opinion

and yes i do agree the delay is BS but im just glad theres still kramers at all

[Rick S]

I know, I'm just kidding with the FU.:thumbsup


im not gonna argue with anyone all i said was my personal opinion

and yes i do agree the delay is BS but im just glad theres still kramers at all

[PacerMedic]

I'm not taking offense at anything said here because it's all true. I shouldn't be "bitching" because I shouldn't HAVE TO!

To anybody under the DELUSION that nobody (ie: EVERYBODY, not just THE ENOURMOUS KID WITH NO MONEY demo) wants a sweet-looking late 80's style KRAMER, I guess you should post a press release to ESP/LTD, Edwards, Ibanez, BC Rich, Schecter and on and on, because they are seling them. Boy, when they find out they are selling the wrong type of guitar, I guess they'll just be in a fuckload of trouble!!:lol :lol :lol

That is all.

[KramerBassFan]

.......


......



.........



So, I am reading this thread.

I then check my email, and find I have a new Kramer News Letter in the email. :thumbsup

And i'm not going to bash Kramer Until something actually hits the shelves. Kevin said it would, so I assume that it is going too.

And i'm not going to judge anything until I have it in front of me.

That is all I'm going to say for now.

:toast

[bkeen]

It will be interesting to get your take in 5 or 6 years.

:whistle

Stick around.

:thumbsup

[KramerBassFan]

Talking to me, Eh? :whistle :scratchhe

[bkeen]

Yep!

:thumbsup

[KramerBassFan]

Not sure what your talking about here, or implying..... but okay. :thumbsup

(Generally Best not to assume what people are talking about when you arent sure over the internet, if you get what I mean ;) )

[bkeen]

Nothing really meant by it other than it will be interesting to see what your take of Gibson/Kramer is in 5 or 6 years.

:thumbsup

[bkeen]

Hey guys. I have an idea for the next Kramer model. ;) :D

:evilThe Dissapointmentator:evil



http://www.keencentral.com/pub/dissapointenator.jpg



:happy1

I kid I kid!

:thumbsup

[KramerBassFan]

Haha. :D Funny.

But. I should Say. I've managed to get 6 or 7 (or is it 8? :scratchhe ) Basses with out buying a single one of them new. :thumbsup

[80's Rocker]

I wonder what would happen if the 80's came back as fast as grunge kicked them out. Would Kramer stay with their new models or would the classic Kramers, Barettas, old logos and all that good stuff return? I just have a good feeling that it is going to happen for a few reasons.

First, there are alot of kids my age who are really getting into the style, music, techincal guitar playing that actually has mids in the tones and dont have distortion set to 100.

Second there are guys like Casey, and Steel Panther especially that has really good songs to them and are attracting more and more attention each day.

Third, ther are going to be new albums to come out early next year so far for RATT, Winger, and Slash with all his special guests.

Fourth, the prices are going up on our guitars which means probably there is a higher demand for them because people want them for 80's stuff.

I am just holding high hopes for it all and am hoping that one day people will realise what real rock and roll sounds like!

[Rick S]

Nah, the '80s aren't 'coming back' as you say. The '80s were the '80s. But, I do think alot of the '80s are indeed influencing alot of younger kids. I've seen it myself. Its amazing to me that alot of those kids love it when I go into 'shred mode'. They love that stuff. Will Kramer make those cool assed guitars again? Who knows. Its been hinted at time and time again. But, as with anything Kramer, you NEVER know whats going to happen. If anything at all will actually happen. You know, if you really want that '80s Kramer forget about the new Kramer. Buy a vintage one or have Warren build what YOU want. Another option is MeanStreet Guitars are going to start up production again on some cool assed Eddie type guitars. There are options.:thumbsup

[helocene]

But, as with anything Kramer, you NEVER know whats going to happen. If anything at all will actually happen.
I wasn't going to post on this thread but I can't help it. New Kramer has got that part of old Kramer down pat. :D

[kramerSquatch]

Third, ther are going to be new albums to come out early next year so far for RATT, Winger, and Slash with all his special guests.


Yeah but those guys play Charvel, Gibson, Shur guitars...and those manufacturers have new stuff out in the market already. I dont think any of those guys even played Kramer in the 80's...maybe Reb but I dont really remember

[muttznmongrelz]

and with each purchase of a "Neu Kramer"...the lucky buyer will also receive...DRUM ROLL PLEASE...a "Rare" & "Authentic" Gibson Jimi Hendrix Signature Guitar as an added bonus.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/muttznmongrelz/GibsonHendrixSignature.jpg

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[brokrguy]

Hey guys. I have an idea for the next Kramer model. ;) :D

:evilThe Dissapointmentator:evil



http://www.keencentral.com/pub/dissapointenator.jpg

:thumbsup

HEEHEE!!! :happy1 That's what I get for not checking in for a couple of days - Bruce beats me to a joke...(I'm no photowiz, though, so it wouldn't have been as funny :-| )

Aka the "V etiN"... (boo! sss! death threats!)

:thumbsup

[80's Rocker]

Yeah but those guys play Charvel, Gibson, Shur guitars...and those manufacturers have new stuff out in the market already. I dont think any of those guys even played Kramer in the 80's...maybe Reb but I dont really remember

Oh I know but I was just saying if that kind of stuff came back then Kramer would want their old guitars back because that would be the style and not the current one.

That backwards V is hilarious, I think it would be funny for a company to announce a new guitar and everybody be excited and then call ithe dissapointmentator and make it crappy so everybody is dissapointed although Gibson is doing similar thinkgs right now lol :D

[stunt double]

the sad part is that xmas is only 2 weeks away, and all the non-kramers have been bought, wrapped, and are under the tree by now :xmas :toilet

[bkeen]

Yep, those $1200+ Kramers just aren't selling these days. But neither are the $399 ones for the same reason. Their aren't any available!

But if the $1200+ guitars were US made, I don't think the typhoons whould have interupted the product flow...
So smaller profit/volume is better than no profit/volume...

0 x anything = 0

:whistle

[Rick S]

Yup, great point!:thumbsup I think Kramer should indeed have an overseas line but I also think that an American made line is essential. I can name alot of US made guitar companies that are doing a decent job in this crap assed economy. I think the problem might be that Kramer (Gibson) thinks they have to sell tens of thousands of guitars to make big BIG bucks. You know, the 'Gotta be the biggest' mentallity. But like I said, you just never know what might happen with Kramer. Might being the key word.


Yep, those $1200+ Kramers just aren't selling these days. But neither are the $399 ones for the same reason. Their aren't any available!

But if the $1200+ guitars were US made, I don't think the typhoons whould have interupted the product flow...
So smaller profit/volume is better than no profit/volume...

0 x anything = 0

:whistle

[bkeen]

Rick, tell the truth. You really like the Disappointmentator don't you?


:happy1

:thumbsup

[Rick S]

Yes.............................yes I do.:funnel I would like it more if the V was going BOTH way though. Maybe a Super Disappointmentator.:drool Also, since Kramer feels a 'need' to cater to the 'kids' they could also make a smaller Disappointmentator and call it the Disappointmentator Tot.:lol Come on!!! Now thats just funny.


Rick, tell the truth. You really like the Disappointmentator don't you?


:happy1

:thumbsup

[kramerSquatch]

Before the "Disappointmentator Tot" would sell though, they would need to get Billy Jo from Greenday to play and endorse it....for the kids, right?!?!?

[brokrguy]

No, no, Rick...it would be the "Minor Disappointmentator"...jeez, I can't keep giving you these lobs...:whistle

:D The truth is, if one had been available a while back, I probably would've gotten a Nite V instead of the GK Crs Dlx (which just got here, btw - pics later!)...

No delays from GK - I emailed Leo on a Thursday, bought one Friday, got it on a Thursday. I think we all know that there is ONE place now to get a "New Kramer", whether it's a US or an overseas model...

:thumbsup

[smock19nathan]

I really would like to see the pacer classic under my tree this year. Looks as if its not gonna happen....:banghead

[brokrguy]

Guess it depends on how long you keep the tree up...

:thumbsup

[sprocket226]

Have they been released in Europe?
http://www.kramerguitars.com/News.aspx

[Midnight_Highway]

I am not even slamming them, I just wanted to hear when they will arrive. :D Guess I'm basically losing my deposit on one. :nono

George

[mmmtacos]

George, is that guitar in your avatar a Kramer? I know they used different materials sometimes - but drywall???:happy1

[Bluesman001]

No sir, it's nose candy.......rofl

[Midnight_Highway]

Bob, Bluesman is right. ;) It's a guitar of pressed cocaine made by drug smugglers --in the news from a couple of years ago.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QubetTjZ7dw/SyWqgK7YsqI/AAAAAAAAFIM/HRiMil92GZ8/s800/cocaine-guitar.jpg

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-is-this-electric-guitar-worth.html


George

[mmmtacos]

:yikes

[helocene]

Best comment on the article blog link:
Meh...it's the prototype for the Fender Custom Shop Stevie Nicks Signature model.
:D

[sprocket226]

That's freakin crazy...

[stunt double]

its a striker

[smock19nathan]

Very expensive piece of drywall :stupid ..... looks like a squire hahahaha:D

[mmmtacos]

its a striker

:poke

[SamanthaM]

It's a guitar of pressed cocaine

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QubetTjZ7dw/SyWqgK7YsqI/AAAAAAAAFIM/HRiMil92GZ8/s800/cocaine-guitar.jpg

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-is-this-electric-guitar-worth.html

I though it was the John DeLorean Signature model :happy1

[KramerUK]

Well thankfull I'm really busy now til the new year and I'm guessing we're not going to see anything til at least mid January.
And I'm not bitching here simple fact is these were due in Oct, Tommy was sent the spreadsheet in August and sent it to me on the 9th August.

I've got a deposit on one just like a few people here, and right now as far as I'm concerned Tommy may as well have it and go spend it in a bar for all I care.

[smock19nathan]

When available i think i will buy the pacer and gold out the floyd with an original and some gold schallers, and maybe some bezzels . Love that color scheme gold on white, with maple board. Should look good, thi nkin r3 nut? 43mm not sure...:drool

[BamaKramer]

Bob, Bluesman is right. ;) It's a guitar of pressed cocaine made by drug smugglers --in the news from a couple of years ago.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QubetTjZ7dw/SyWqgK7YsqI/AAAAAAAAFIM/HRiMil92GZ8/s800/cocaine-guitar.jpg

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-is-this-electric-guitar-worth.html


George

i have been wondering what that was. what will they think of next..

[brokrguy]

Bob, Bluesman is right. ;) It's a guitar of pressed cocaine made by drug smugglers --in the news from a couple of years ago.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_QubetTjZ7dw/SyWqgK7YsqI/AAAAAAAAFIM/HRiMil92GZ8/s800/cocaine-guitar.jpg

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-is-this-electric-guitar-worth.html


George

Strangely enough, it was being shipped to the Kramer factory in NJ...hmm...

:thumbsup

[muttznmongrelz]

Unobtainium....a facetious term for any extremely rare, costly, or physically impossible material needed to fulfill a given design for a given application. The name is a portmanteau derived from unobtainable + -ium (the suffix for a number of chemical elements). Variations include unobtanium and unattainium, with the same meaning.

The properties of any particular "unobtainium" depend on the intended use. For example, a pulley made of unobtainium might be massless and frictionless. However, if used in a nuclear rocket, unobtainium would be light, strong at high temperatures, and resistant to radiation damage.

The name unobtainium also closely resembles the systematic element name for undiscovered elements that have an atomic number of 100-199. Like unobtainium, these all have 5 syllable names beginning with "un" and ending in "ium". The term was, however, in use long before the IUPAC systematic names.

Another largely synonymous term includes wishalloy,[1] although the sense is often subtly different in that a wishalloy usually doesn't exist at all, whereas unobtainium may merely be unavailable. The term handwavium usually is used to indicate a material that probably cannot even in principle be real.

:scratchhe

[stunt double]

:D :D :lol :D :D

[smock19nathan]

Im so ready to see them prices and videos posted on youtube....

[Heinz]

You can PLAY "Cocaine" on a black Fender, but man, if you REALLY wanna make it real...

[JPMarini]

I have to say that I disagree with Gibson's approach on this. The low-end Korean superstat market is so oversaturated- its very likely that these guitars will get lost in the sea of LTDs, BC Richs, and the like. Moreover, younger customers (who are the most likely to be low-end buyers) don't have a strong connection to the Kramer name.

Like Charvel, Kramer's strength is in its name recognition with a slightly older market. That market may be relatively small, but will be more capable of paying for a mid-priced guitar. Kramer should simply improve on the Charvel formula, by offering features that the Charvel production line lacks, such as pointy headstocks, mahogany bodies, etc.

That approach would boost Kramers name recognition in a positive way, rather than establishing it as a new budget guitar.

If Gibson ever hopes to take on the higher-end superstrat market (Jackson, ESP, Ibanez) it would seem to make more sense to develop a credible middle-market product, and go from there.

[Rick S]

Well, NAMM 2010 is soon. Is Kramer going to be there? Or is just to much to expect anything. I know its a joke to actually think anything good will come but I know alot of younger fellas are eagerly waiting. The neat thing is they don't want the typical crap that their generation wants. They really dig my guitars and want something like that.:thumbsup I'm afraid if nothing comes soon 4 or 5 youngins I know are going elsewhere. Heck, they have probably already gone.:D So, is Kramer going to actually show at NAMM and make some product avaiable?:scratchhe Or is this the same crap different year?

[geetar10]

Well, NAMM 2010 is soon. Is Kramer going to be there? Or is just to much to expect anything. I know its a joke to actually think anything good will come but I know alot of younger fellas are eagerly waiting. The neat thing is they don't want the typical crap that their generation wants. They really dig my guitars and want something like that.:thumbsup I'm afraid if nothing comes soon 4 or 5 youngins I know are going elsewhere. Heck, they have probably already gone.:D So, is Kramer going to actually show at NAMM and make some product avaiable?:scratchhe Or is this the same crap different year?

I hear there will be a few Kramers there. Not alot, but some at least.

[BamaKramer]

hopefully the classic series will be a good thing to come.

[kramerSquatch]

I thought they were "On the Boat" a few months ago. What kind of boat is it? A Bamboo Float with a Cane Pole to push it over?

[SMF]

You'll all be glad to know that you can now buy a $3,000 Dusk Tiger to tide you over until the Kramers arrive via bamboo float.

[G.A.S. Ackward]

Guys.

Just accept the fact the the 'Kramer' name is best left to the vintage ones. (and a few Yo models, ok, maybe the Pacer re-issues).

The new 'Kramer' name seems more like a running joke now.

I'm sorry for the guys with their deposits down. I would be really, really, pissed by this point.

Just me, though.

[bkeen]

Craig, if they hired one guy full time that could build guitars they would have produced more guitars in the last 2 years than they did!!!

;) :D

:happy1

[kramerSquatch]

Hell if they hired one guy to build them, strap them to his back and swim to the U.S. they would have more in the market now then they have in the past few years.

[bkeen]

I was thinking US made... ;) :D

But maybe we can bring that indonesian over here and get him a visa....

:happy1

:thumbsup

[Rick S]

So, lets see now....................Kramer will be at NAMM but with only a small presence. Why even be there? These guys are just don't get it. Yup, I'm done. Vintage Kramers, Charvels, SEGs, ESPs. There are plenty of guitars out there to enjoy. The wait is pathetic. They had the formula with the Yo JS, Baretta, 1984, and Pacer. And they flush it down the drain. Idiots.

[Craig Johnson]

I have read this thread and bit my tounge for a while now. But it's time to put in my $.02. To anyone at Gibson/Kramer please take note of this. I have read that the purchasing of guitars priced over $1000 are down. So to blah blah blah (Make an American guitar) wouldn't be blah blah blah. Save it for someone who hasn't been in the import business. I have been in it. The plain and simple of it is this is the easy way to get into the low-mid level market where the majority of the sales are. Newcomers, rich kids first guitars etc.....It's easy money because of the cheap materials, labor and lack of quality. Don't argue it, remember, I've done it. I know quality is monitored but mostly sacrificed for a better bottom line. This part looks identical to this one and meets specs and is 4 cents cheaper so we'll use it. Are all overseas guitars bad? No! Are they as good as the ones made in America? Some, but not most!


Manufacturing delays are very frequent when dealing with overseas manufacturers and a lot of the excuses you hear are what was mentioned. It's true. We a-so-sryy. We produce your product at very fast rate. We await your reply. While they sit on your product to make someone else's product. I've seen it in every manufacturing facility I went to. Now, with that being said ask yourself this. Why don't we produce a guitar that actually lives up to it's reputation. Nah, let's just use the name and place it on a vanilla guitar and try and make a dollar.


Now, let's look at some reasons that OVERPRICED (Oh no he didn't!) guitar sales are down. There could be more than 1 reason for this. Maybe it's not ALL because of the economy. Maybe the market is saturated with the same old stuff. I have seen so many JEM's, Les Pauls and real Fenders (not the Mexi-crap). Some of us don't want a Les Paul or a Fender or a JEM. I want a few Barettas and a Pacer, and a Nightswan. Oh, and I want it available in Holoflash, or bleeding skulls or whatever besides white and red. I don't think I'm alone on this one either.


I'm not a Les Paul fan, I think they are WAY over priced. Sorry, I do. In my videos you can see a Les Paul in the background but have you seen me play it? Nah, because I don't really like it. It's not ME! Look at Ranger boats right now, the best bass boat on the market. BANKRUPT! Price exceeded rational people's expendable income and sales plumeted. Bottomline is I'm not gonna make a living playing guitar. So why would I spend $4500 on a guitar. Dude, seriously! $4500! For a guitar! Can a guitar be manufactured in the US, be a quality product AND be under $1000? HELL YES! Instead of focusing on why it can't be done, focus on how it can. "There are no problems. Only solutions yet to be discovered."


Nothing personal. Just a Kramer fan waiting for the new owners to become a Kramer fan.

[PacerMedic]

Gibson's just about completely tits up. They should've taken Hartley's offer of their debt plus $1. Pride got in the way, now the president is gone and the ship has no skipper. It's a matter of time before Bain moves in and liquidates the place to get their money.

Pride can be a bitch; Harley Davidson wouldn't be with us if they hadn't spent some time under the umbrella of a bowling ball manufacturer. Gibson won't do this. It'll be a nice fire sale.

[kramerSquatch]

So, lets see now....................Kramer will be at NAMM but with only a small presence. Why even be there? These guys are just don't get it. Yup, I'm done. Vintage Kramers, Charvels, SEGs, ESPs. There are plenty of guitars out there to enjoy. The wait is pathetic. They had the formula with the Yo JS, Baretta, 1984, and Pacer. And they flush it down the drain. Idiots.

GKGs should be on that list as well

[JGB]

I thought they were "On the Boat" a few months ago. What kind of boat is it? A Bamboo Float with a Cane Pole to push it over?



<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q272/JAB70/SinkingShip.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[PacerMedic]

The Andrea Doria!!

[sticktrix1]

While i agree partly..

think... middle aged people now, were around in the 80's.... what happens when you grow old and die... (Forgive me.)
the only people left will be kids who have grown up... from THIS ERA now.

I think that they should do both!

i think they should maintain the higher end like Yo did.

Plus, go for the new market! and in order to do that,.... they can make the BEST or the WORST guitars in the universe... it doesn't really matter...
if little kiddies see their idols playing them, they will kick and scream till they get one! and till their friends get one, and then they all go and sit in music stores just to play all the new kramers.

so i think its good to endorse bands that have a big influence on the new age scene..

Here in australia the galvatrons are pretty well known.. they're endorsed by Kramer atm and if the Galvatrons actually USED them live..... Kramer would get a Huge look into from Our Australian market... but from what i've heard. they use their gibsons live, and kramers in the studio's or something like that.


just my opinion anyways..



I have to say that I disagree with Gibson's approach on this. The low-end Korean superstat market is so oversaturated- its very likely that these guitars will get lost in the sea of LTDs, BC Richs, and the like. Moreover, younger customers (who are the most likely to be low-end buyers) don't have a strong connection to the Kramer name.

Like Charvel, Kramer's strength is in its name recognition with a slightly older market. That market may be relatively small, but will be more capable of paying for a mid-priced guitar. Kramer should simply improve on the Charvel formula, by offering features that the Charvel production line lacks, such as pointy headstocks, mahogany bodies, etc.

That approach would boost Kramers name recognition in a positive way, rather than establishing it as a new budget guitar.

If Gibson ever hopes to take on the higher-end superstrat market (Jackson, ESP, Ibanez) it would seem to make more sense to develop a credible middle-market product, and go from there.

[Willybomb]

Casey, the problem with the AU market though is that our entire annual guitar sales for the whole country is probably equal to say... I dunno... Los Angeles in a month. We pretty much get the 2nds from all the big companies - fender, gibson et al - they just don't care that much.

The problem with Kramer is that they don't seem to put anything out, as far as I can tell. I'm told there's a shop in Adelaide or somewhere that has a fair number of Yos there, but, that doesnt' count anymore.

[am5150]

Dude, seriously! $4500! For a guitar! Can a guitar be manufactured in the US, be a quality product AND be under $1000? HELL YES! Instead of focusing on why it can't be done, focus on how it can. "There are no problems. Only solutions yet to be discovered."

I agree with you why Gibson cost so much. I dont see it. I would love to have one but unless I find a bunch of money, I never will pay that amount.

How can guitars be made for under 1000 in the USA?
Start with the pickups. It cost just as much money to make a cheap pickup as it does to make a good one. I dont think pickups should be no more than 20dollars each.

[Rick S]

GKGs should be on that list as well

Yup, GKG! And for the more traditional you've got Tokai, Edwards, Reverand, Washburn, and on and on. The choices are endless. So, seeing that Kramer obviously CAN'T pretty much means I WON'T.

[Midnight_Highway]

Re: endorsements, generally that only works with a high end guitar. Case in point, Kramer in the 80s--you had bands play their Stagemasters etc in the music videos etc because it was an expensive guitar. Fast forward to nu metal, and everyone was playing their PRS. Musicians like their bling, and showcasing the coolest (and often most expensive) guitars usually makes a point. So the whole "Classic" concept, while it will sell some guitars if Epiphone finally gets their act in gear with distributorship (let's face it, the guitars must be in a Nashville warehouse by now), you will not have rock stars playing them.

I also can't believe that I paid my deposit 4 months ago. Ridiculous..

[kramerSquatch]

Dude, seriously! $4500! For a guitar! Can a guitar be manufactured in the US, be a quality product AND be under $1000? HELL YES! Instead of focusing on why it can't be done, focus on how it can. "There are no problems. Only solutions yet to be discovered."

I agree with you why Gibson cost so much. I dont see it. I would love to have one but unless I find a bunch of money, I never will pay that amount.

How can guitars be made for under 1000 in the USA?
Start with the pickups. It cost just as much money to make a cheap pickup as it does to make a good one. I dont think pickups should be no more than 20dollars each.

I agree 100%. Most custom guitar builders will build you a guitar for around $1000 and those are usually just one man businesses. Hell, Musikraft will build a Kramer 1984 knockoff for $595, add a nice pickup your under $700. So take that idea and add to it Fender and Gibson's buying power. Plus the size of their shop. They can put 10 times as many guitars as the one man businesses.

[maidenfriek71]

I called 5 different Kramer dealers today and none of them have any idea when they will be here,maybe the boat sank.They need to bring back musicyo if they plan on making the kramer name live on.Gibson doesn't seem to give a shit about kramer,maybe thats why there not availiable.

[SamanthaM]

I agree 100%. Most custom guitar builders will build you a guitar for around $1000 and those are usually just one man businesses. Hell, Musikraft will build a Kramer 1984 knockoff for $595, add a nice pickup your under $700. So take that idea and add to it Fender and Gibson's buying power. Plus the size of their shop. They can put 10 times as many guitars as the one man businesses.

Want to know why they [Fender/Gibson] Can't do it?

Because the small custom shops don't have CEO's getting paid 20 million a year to screw up the company they where paid to run.

Oh and also because those same people think that is how much they should be sold for, like they are special or something.

WHY IS IT? a 42oz Pepsi costs a buck and Pepsi prob spends 10,000 times more on just advertising then both of them combined. :arrg


Why is it you can build a Kramer from scratch using all original NOS or all top of the line parts for under a 1000. And it will kick the ass of most of these $2000-3000-4000+ new guitars?

[am5150]

Want to know why they [Fender/Gibson] Can't do it?

Because the small custom shops don't have CEO's getting paid 20 million a year to screw up the company they where paid to run.

Oh and also because those same people think that is how much they should be sold for, like they are special or something.

WHY IS IT? a 42oz Pepsi costs a buck and Pepsi prob spends 10,000 times more on just advertising then both of them combined. :arrg


Why is it you can build a Kramer from scratch using all original NOS or all top of the line parts for under a 1000. And it will kick the ass of most of these $2000-3000-4000+ new guitars?


Well the more I think about it.... Lets say a New Gibson Les Paul Standard is $2800.

I have no idea on this but if it takes 100 man hours to build a Les Paul. And you pay a American worker 10 dollars per hour to build it. Thats 1,000 bucks right there.

Plus the cost of materials to build it. Say 400 bucks.

Plus the music store you bought it from has to make a profit (the middle man). They buy the giutars say for 2400 and sell it to you for 2800.

That only leaves 1000 dollars for marketing and profit. Say you slit the 2. There only making 500 per guitar.

Does anyone know the real cost it takes Gibson, Fender to build a American made guitar?

[_xxx_]

[B][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Want to know why they [Fender/Gibson] Can't do it?

Because the small custom shops don't have CEO's getting paid 20 million a year to screw up the company they where paid to run.


Nor do they have to document stuff, do certifications and fulfill laws in every corner of the world, support a worldwide production/sales/marketing/support machine, do online and offline customer support for millions of people and on and on. All that stuff costs serious money.

It's easy as long as you build several axes a year or month (and none of them identical, needless to say), but once it goes into millions it's a completely different story. Just documenting and clearing all the paperwork and legal stuff in a company like Fender or Gibson is a work of a whole department and requires some rather huge IT and logistics support.

So to answer the previous question, it's not the building itself that costs all that money, that's just like 50% of the price. And while a small luthier will have more work to do manually and thus higher costs there, the big guys have all these additional costs mentioned above (and much more minor stuff not mentioned here).

I would guess that Gibson and Fender make about $100-150 or so on one US standard guitar, best case. As you may know, a net profit of 5% is quite a high value in the industry in general. I'd be surprised if they make more than $100 per guitar. A little luthier makes much more, about 30-50% of the price.

[kramerSquatch]

Want to know why they [Fender/Gibson] Can't do it?

Because the small custom shops don't have CEO's getting paid 20 million a year to screw up the company they where paid to run.

Oh and also because those same people think that is how much they should be sold for, like they are special or something.

WHY IS IT? a 42oz Pepsi costs a buck and Pepsi prob spends 10,000 times more on just advertising then both of them combined. :arrg


Why is it you can build a Kramer from scratch using all original NOS or all top of the line parts for under a 1000. And it will kick the ass of most of these $2000-3000-4000+ new guitars?

Well the CEO's should make whatever the shareholders allow them to make. They wouldnt make that much if the price were lower. And the only way for he price to lower is for people to stop buying. CEO's, in a true CEO position, dont set their own salary. The board does. ANd the board has a higher interest in seeing sales then paying that CEO. They pay him BECAUSE he is getting the item sold at a higher price.

And a coke actually costs about 10 cents to make. $1.49 at the store and they are really raking it in. Not to mention $7 at a concert or football game. But hey, capitalism...im all for it. If people will pay it, why not charge it. We as consumers have more power than you think.

[_xxx_]

And the only way for he price to lower is for people to stop buying.

No, all that does is destroying a company. Usually you'll lower the price of the old stock, drive the production down and fire lots of now unneeded people (or halve their worktime and wages or whatever), while keeping the prices for the new stuff almost the same or even increasing them.

Dumping the prices is a clear sign of defeat and a loud "houston, we have a problem" to the public, very bad for the brand and the last thing they'll do only after everything else failed.

It is kinda crazy, but that's the way how it's usually being done.

[PacerMedic]

And a coke actually costs about 10 cents to make. $1.49 at the store and they are really raking it in. Not to mention $7 at a concert or football game. But hey, capitalism...im all for it. If people will pay it, why not charge it. We as consumers have more power than you think.

THAT is precisely the reason Gibson will not be around much longer unless they find a way to retire their debt to Bain Capital! This company (owners of Burger King, Toys r US, etc...) is used to seeing high profit for low investment. How much does it take to make a whopper? This is the problem they see with Gibson. Bain inherited the note when they bought out GC (and MF and Music 123). They will LIQUIDATE that company's assets in order to get their money, so they better hope Peavey makes another offer if that heritage is so important! :toast

[kramerSquatch]

No, all that does is destroying a company. Usually you'll lower the price of the old stock, drive the production down and fire lots of now unneeded people (or halve their worktime and wages or whatever), while keeping the prices for the new stuff almost the same or even increasing them.

Dumping the prices is a clear sign of defeat and a loud "houston, we have a problem" to the public, very bad for the brand and the last thing they'll do only after everything else failed.

It is kinda crazy, but that's the way how it's usually being done.

You could not be more incorrect. The market responds to the people buying the items. If people continue to pay thousands for USA guitars, then companies will continue to charge thousands. There is no incentive to lower price. If it were me, I would keep raising prices till I saw the market break, then lower if neccessary. These people are in business to make money, not to make us happy. Dont fool yourself, none of these companies are producing guitars because they want the "world to sing in harmony". They want the money.

Retailers do lower their prices of old stock (ex: MF having their Fender Fridays). But Fender already got paid for those guitars. Fender doesnt lower their prices because they dont sell to the general public. And those retailers that they DO sell to are under contract. Dumping prices is not a sign of defeat, it is a sign of "Hey we need to change if we want to stay competitive." If the market stops buying your goods you must lower prices to get back in and stay competitive. As a result you must lay off part of your work force to compensate for the money your not making. Once you get back in and grab a large market share, you hire people back and increase production to keep up with demand.

[_xxx_]

Well I am working in a huge market and have made my experiences over the years, also thanks to some good teachers. That "market responds..." is just a pipe dream of the Keynsian bunch :) The "vote with the wallet" thingy never worked.

Dumping the prices is very dangerous long-term, because it's very hard to re-establish the value and market placement after that, that's why it's the last thing a "big" company will ever do.

I'm not talking about retail, but the manufacturers. The people who run a company will usually do anything to stay on top and keep the bonuses flow, so what is usually being done is exactly what I described above.

Right now you can see it all over the world in many industries due to the crisis. Firing people, reducing production, but increasing the bonuses for bosses despite that and the prices fell only marginally, if at all. So theory this way or the other, the reality doesn't care about theories.

And by the way, the new Kramers are AVAILABLE!

http://www.dv247.com/search/0/0/ProductQuantity/Descending/kramer/1/

[Craig Johnson]

Where are they available in the states? I'm also not looking for the old Pacer stuff either. looking for a Pacer Classic. Where is that guitar available?

[kramerSquatch]

[QUOTE=_xxx_;407633]Well I am working in a huge market and have made my experiences over the years, also thanks to some good teachers. That "market responds..." is just a pipe dream of the Keynsian bunch :) The "vote with the wallet" thingy never worked.
QUOTE]

Im sorry you think that. But I know for a fact in the US it has worked. When gas prices went up people stopped buying gas...as a result the huge SUV market collapsed. I have a Cadillac Escalade sitting in my driveway thanks to that crisis (they were practically giving them away, look at the fall of GM). Now that are economy has tanked prices are coming down because people simply arent buying. I have a new Steve Morse Y2D, that I got for $1000 (thats $900 off) in my studio thanks to that. So it does work. The market responds. I go to Vegas several times a year. No one is spending money out there so they are begging people to come. Im going in March, they sent me a free plane ticket, free hotel, free food vouchers, and $300 in match play (basically free money). 5 years ago, I could only get a free room. So the market DOES respond. It HAS to. There no other way, unless you try to make everyone "equal" which we are not far from over here. Look at restarants that are closing...people voting with their wallets, choosing not to eat out, etc... So it does "trickle up". if people stopped buying fenders, Guitar Center would have a ton of stock and stop buying from the distributor, who would back up and stop buying from the manufaturer, who would in turn quit buying parts from smaller companies. SO the smaller compay would have to lower prices or find other avenues to move the stuff.

[KramerUK]

Not much chance to get on the forum these days, but does anyone know what is going on with this?

The guitars are advertised everywhere but no-one seems to be able to give a delivery date :scratchhe

Has anyone been able to get in touch with Tommy concern the guitars that a lot of us have deposits on?
I can't even get on his myspace page at the minute

[mmmtacos]

I thought the Keynsian people thought that voting with your wallet doesn't work

[Vengeance]

Has anyone been able to get in touch with Tommy concern the guitars that a lot of us have deposits on?
I

I have come to terms with the fact I donated my $50 and will probably never see it again. :censored

[smock19nathan]

Well considering october was a no show, and january was a no show........ sounds like a lot of donation money went out.:bs

[VooDoo666]

Well considering october was a no show, and january was a no show........ sounds like a lot of donation money went out.:bs


I posted a week or so ago in this thread that we are catching up (you can see Kramers popping up on store sites around the world...they are shipping to dealers) and within the next 30 days everything will be all back on track to where it should have been.

[Kramer_nut]

Kevin is right, my local dealer is placing an order and the will ship soon. I hope to have a Pacer Classic soon!!

Todd

[amerturk]

Be patient guys....things are a coming!

[Rick S]

I'm doing my best man.:thumbsup Any chance at seeing Kramers in MN?:)


Be patient guys....things are a coming!

[KramerUK]

It seems that the guitars will now being heading to the stores :D

More concerned now about the lack of response from Tomi...


CAsey you're still showing his banner in your sig. do you have a way of getting in touch with him?

[sticktrix1]

Hey paul, how you been mate??

Umm, well i really only contact him through email... and ages ago i used to contact him through his myspace...

Can't you get a hold of him??

i just use that tomi-o-music@ wateva email.. or something along the lines of that..








CAsey you're still showing his banner in your sig. do you have a way of getting in touch with him?

[KramerUK]

Cheers Casey, keeping well hope your are too bud, gigs going well?

I'll try that address and see if I can get anywhere :thumbsup