How about a little Homebrew? [Archive]

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 04:56 PM

That would be a whole new ball game.
Why 60?
Why not 50 or 100?

I would just couple the same preamp to a push pull configuration and a pair of EL34's or 6550's. Hopefully the voicing wouldn't change too much.

With the extra iron, beefed up power supply, tubes and circuitry it would drive the price up about 150 to 200 dollars.

lostinthemasses

04-21-2009, 05:02 PM

i need a head that would power two vintage squareback 40-50 watt 12's

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 05:19 PM

Well, there are plenty around.
My goal with this amp is to have it voiced to have great driven tube drive at bedroom, garage, practice volume.

It is voiced to deliver big-cab sound at low volumes.
Modellers are everywhere, but good true tube saturation in the low volume range are tough to find.
Of course it could be lined out to a clean power amp to increase the power-but that loses the idea. It would be nothing more than a preamp at that point, and it might be a bit "strong" to drive that way.

It took a lot of time tweaking, twisting, knobbing and moving wires around just right to get a nice full sound while keeping the volume down.

If I went to 50 watt or 100 watt range, I would go SLO. I will build one, but this is not that.

fett

04-21-2009, 05:24 PM

Hi, Cyg. Cyg and me have been around on Boards. He has figured out how to stay. That's another story or two. I will tell you this, Cyg has rebuilt 2 tube amps for me. One was fairly easy. The second one was a work of art. Take a nu mber.:headbang

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 05:41 PM

fett has to decide what to do with a certain 2x6L6 PA amp.

It has a tone similar to a '59 Bassman-cathode biased and all. I have changed out ALL of the caps-including the tone caps. It still has some hiss. More than likely coming from those old carbon composition resistors.

But cranked-Sheet.
What a rocker.
And LOUD.

Speaking of which-15 watts is louder than what you might expect. The SEL hurts my ears dimed. I play it through a 4x12 5150 cab (Sheffields, 16 ohm).
Smokes.

fett

04-21-2009, 05:48 PM

I think I owe you a tube tester.:headbang

lostinthemasses

04-21-2009, 05:57 PM

fett

04-21-2009, 06:05 PM

Well, I really don't need another tube amp. Why not you and Cyg make it work?:headbang

Pacer Guy

04-21-2009, 06:16 PM

That looks pretty sweet :drool
Do you have any sounds clips you could post?

fett

04-21-2009, 06:24 PM

I supply the man to do what he do. It sucks that he lives in SC and I live in WA. Other than that, give it a shot. Worked for me.:headbang

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 06:26 PM

welp, i'm looking for the same big sound out of a small rig, i want this 2x12 with a tube head at low volume to sound like a full stack at high volume, this would be for studio purposes

i was hoping you could fab something nice with similar specs to what you got right now

15 Watts is plenty for studio work.
As long as you're not trying to record live with a drummer who is all out thrashing in the same room.
You'd be amazed at how many studio albums were recorded with low-watt amps.
That was one of Jimmy Page's secrets."Whole Lotta Love through a 12 watt Supro and a tele sounded awesome.

I have it hooked up to a cab rated for 300 hundred watts. I dimed both the preamp gains, turned the master up to halfway, and in about 15 seconds sweet ever suffering wife came from the other end of the house..."Sounds good! Turn it down!" She claimed it was shaking the windows. And I'm in the garage.

Yes- it is loud enough.
60 watts only buys you a lot of clean headroom, which this amp doesn't really have much of.

It is hum and buzz free. OK, almost. All amps have a little.
I take pride in my builds lacking hiss, hum, background noise.
Only problem I see is picking up radio stations-but that depends entirely on what kind of cord is being used.

fett

04-21-2009, 06:40 PM

Dave's not here. Cyg, Make that amp sing.:headbang

bkeen

04-21-2009, 06:49 PM

Hell yeah, killer amp Cyg! Wish I had the time and tallent!!

Make some clips! I would love to hear it...

:thumbsup

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 06:54 PM

Hell yeah, killer amp Cyg! Wish I had the time and tallent!!

Make some clips! I would love to hear it...

:thumbsup

Give me a place to host a sound clip without going through 50 clicks to do it.

I tried "Soundclick", it was such a PITA that I don't even know how to login to my own account.

Can I post clips directly here?

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 06:56 PM

Dave's not here. Cyg, Make that amp sing.:headbang

It already sings-check your pm's (and answer them).

lostinthemasses

04-21-2009, 07:05 PM

well, like i said it would be for the studio, but it would be for live recording as well

Pacer Guy

04-21-2009, 07:10 PM

Give me a place to host a sound clip without going through 50 clicks to do it.

I tried "Soundclick", it was such a PITA that I don't even know how to login to my own account.

Can I post clips directly here?

I have a Soundclick account. If you would like to email me a few clips, I can post them for you :thumbsup

fett

04-21-2009, 07:11 PM

I know it will be what you want. Why? Because I know. You guys may think that sounds dumb but I know Cyg and I am no fool.:headbang

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 07:32 PM

well, like i said it would be for the studio, but it would be for live recording as well

Yes, you need something in another range. 60 watts sounds odd, but 50 to 100 is well within your realm.
There are a lot of people using low watt amps on stage, and either micing them or using the line out to boost them into the mix.

Thorogood played stadiums through a 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. Sounded plenty loud enough to me!

Cygnus X1

04-21-2009, 07:33 PM

I have a Soundclick account. If you would like to email me a few clips, I can post them for you :thumbsup

Great.
Now I have to record something.
Will do, sir.
Thank you.

:D

Pacer Guy

04-21-2009, 08:25 PM

No Problem :D I know I'm not the only one that would like to hear your work :thumbsup

Kammo1

04-22-2009, 04:08 AM

Sure would love to hear this little beauty, soundclips would be awesomme :drool

smorgdonkey

04-22-2009, 08:39 AM

lostinthemasses

04-22-2009, 03:32 PM

50 watts of tube power has to be enough for 2 12's

about how much would you charge for that?

Cygnus X1

04-22-2009, 05:40 PM

50 watts of tube power has to be enough for 2 12's

about how much would you charge for that?

This forum does not have a "for sale" section.
If you want a custom built amp, then PM me and we can talk nuts and bolts.
You are either pushing rules, or inviting me to do so.
This is not a "Amps for Sale" post.

I told you what I would recommend.
Thank you for the attention.
:jump

Cygnus X1

04-22-2009, 05:44 PM

I've been interested in this kind of thing for a few years now. I think it is time that I try one since I've been soldering in pickups and guitar wiring for a while now.

Do you have any recommendations on kits that are 'out there' as far as value/price as it relates to the quality of parts that you get for the money?

It depends on experience.
If a novice, some pedal builds are in order.
If you are experienced, or have some basic equipment and soldering skills, then a trip over to AX84.com is in order.

I found their recommended schematics to be a bit "buzzy" for my taste-I like a more "natural" tube sustain and compression. So although I call it an SEL, it departs enough to call it something else.

Check the Doberman kits for their prices.

I source my own parts.
If I told everything, it would take the "Cygnus" out of the amp!
:D

fett

04-23-2009, 04:34 PM

I can't take the Cygnus out of the amp. The Hickok 6000A tube tester will be shipped next week. Whether you like it or not.:jump

Cygnus X1

04-23-2009, 05:45 PM

I can't take the Cygnus out of the amp. The Hickok 6000A tube tester will be shipped next week. Whether you like it or not.:jump

Cool!

Have you played the 5C3 yet?

And the Lafayette sounds good.
I think I'll ship it tomorrow or Monday.
It's pretty much the '59 Bassman that Jim Marshall used for his first amps.
Very cool-it has a lot of great tonal character and runs about as quiet as could be expected.

TBDREE

04-24-2009, 09:15 AM

fett

04-24-2009, 12:28 PM

Cool!

Have you played the 5C3 yet?

And the Lafayette sounds good.
I think I'll ship it tomorrow or Monday.
It's pretty much the '59 Bassman that Jim Marshall used for his first amps.
Very cool-it has a lot of great tonal character and runs about as quiet as could be expected. I have wait until I complete the BOX. I got those Russian 6L6's. I'll send a pair to you with the tester.

Cygnus X1

04-25-2009, 06:11 AM

Ive heard CYGs stuff. Its not crap.. He knows his art. CYG we do have a for sale section you just need 25 posts and 30 days to see it..

Smorg try these sites for a great kit.

http://metroamp.com/
http://www.allenamps.com/

Thank you!
My playing isn't worth a flip but I have fun with these amps.

fett, that rocks!
We have to come up with a plan for the cosmetics on that Lafayette. It does sound great, but wow it's ugly.

Also, looking closer at the Masco PA. Someone has hacked it half to death.
They have input wires crossing power wires, the tone and coupling caps are all wonky, and it is far noisier than it ought to be. A shame. I've seen some great things about Masco amps. I might luck upon a schematic to sort it out.
:ninja

Cygnus X1

04-26-2009, 08:56 AM

OK, a soundclip.
Clean, dirty, and nasty.

Forgive the wanking!

The last clip is quiet-my POS mic overloads in a heartbeat, and moving it too far back picks up too much room noise.

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=7550711&q=lo

Pacer Guy

04-26-2009, 10:28 AM

That sounds good :thumbsup Very versatile. Nice clean, great crunch, and killer lead :drool Really make me's want one even more :) :thumbsup

Cygnus X1

04-26-2009, 02:24 PM

Thank you Don!

It has a lot of range for what it is.
Cathode biased single ended is the way to go for these low watt amps.

Cygnus X1

04-27-2009, 01:59 PM

:scratchhe

Whu?

Well?
Anyone else?
(It takes A LOT to make me post my playing).
:jump

Cygnus X1

03-22-2010, 07:18 PM

Resurrecting...
I have built two more since I last posted in this thread.

The amp is about the same, single ended, high gain...efficient and loud.
But kicks all kinds of saturated tube tail at very low volumes (which was my goal).

I have voiced it a little differently to sound better clean and give more headroom.
Throw a KT88 or 6550 in there and it sounds great on clean tones.
6L6 is good, I like the 6V6 best for a Mesa like crunch.

This one will go up for sale after I build the head cab.
Pix to follow!

helocene

03-22-2010, 11:07 PM

Wow Cygnus, that thing is sweet! I'm glad you resurrected this thread, it was prior to my joining. I bet that thing is about perfect for gigs.

I like how you separated the power section, did that help quiet things down a lot?
Have you ran it with a 6v6, if so, did it change the bottom end?
Silkscreen for the labels? Looks fantastic!

My current project is sort of similar. 3 12AX7LPS, 3 gain stages, cathode follower, experimenting with paralleled and self split P/P outputs(the jury is still out). The goal is sub watt power, low cost, and big tone. It's hard to get a good bottom end without big iron.
I think if more people heard how good a low power amp can sound through anything up to a 4x12 they'd mebbe change their minds about a 100watt amp that they can't hardly ever crank into saturation.

Cygnus X1

03-23-2010, 03:45 AM

Thank you hc.

It pushes perhaps 7 watts with a 6550, I wouldn't claim it would be loud enough clean to really gig with unless mic'd.

Separating the power section has eliminated hum.

I do run 6V6's most of the time.

And, although I have built one combo for myself (1x12 Celestion G12M70)...I normally use a Peavey 5150 4x12 and it sounds great.

The PT is rated double the mva it would ever require and the output transformer is also doubled at a 15 watt rating.

pel666

03-23-2010, 05:18 AM

I like the tone of a 6V6 as well in a classA amp, never tried them in a push pull amp. The 6V6G looks kinda sexy too :thumbsup

smorgdonkey

03-23-2010, 06:01 AM

I think if more people heard how good a low power amp can sound through anything up to a 4x12 they'd mebbe change their minds about a 100watt amp that they can't hardly ever crank into saturation.

For sure. When I had a Mesa 4x12 cab and a 5 watt Epi Valve Jr head I learned what volume 5 watts could produce. It really made me wonder why people have Peavey 6505 (GREAT amps btw) and never get to play them above 2-4.

Whu?

Well?
Anyone else?
(It takes A LOT to make me post my playing).

Are all those tones from the same rig with just different gain knob settings or was there tube swaps as well?

floydkramer

03-23-2010, 09:00 AM

wow them cleans really sound sweet n clean, very smooth and noiseless.
I play thru a 100 watt Mesa into 2 4x12 cabs.
I have been using 6L6 tubes.
the sound im going for is a really heavy with tight low end. sort of a Pantera or thrash metal type sound for lack of a better description.
i only use 1 channel and no pedals, i roll back the volume on my guitar for clean(er) parts when needed.
would i benifit from the 6v6 tubes?
do you plan on or have you thought of making an amp
for guys playing my style?
or are you mainly just building amps for recording n studio?

Cygnus X1

03-23-2010, 02:57 PM

smorgdonkey-all from tweaking the knobs.
The guitar is a Hamer Phantom A5 (Think Andy Summers, Steve Stevens...Glen Tipton).

Also, faceplate is engraved into multilayer plastic, not silk screened.

pel, how about the Fender Deluxe Reverb...or Tweed Deluxe, or Princeton for 6V6GT push pulls?
I lik'em.
:D

floydkramer-
AFAIK Mesa's are very tight in their power tube specs. It would need modding to use 6V6's and if so would devalue a great rig.
My opinion the 6V6 and 6L6 family are very close tonally with different breakup points. 6L6 being significantly higher for headroom.

It takes pedals OK, but pushing too much gain on a single channel amp sacrifices versatility of having a good clean tone. I wanted a bit of both, but far more gain than a Class 5 for example.

I've had people ask me about higher wattage versions.
I have a couple of opinions...that segment is very well covered by 100's of custom amp builders.
My price point would end up in the 1500 to 2500 dollar area such as theirs.
Just the sheer number of parts, beefier iron, number of tubes, and complexity runs up the price real quick.

Another thought-although this started out as an AX84 SEL, I worked for 6 months constantly tweaking to get just what I was after for tone. The AX84 sounded like a giant fuzztone!

I had this design wrapped up long before Marshall had the Class 5 announced, or Mesa, or Blackstar for that matter.
The Epi Valve Jr. was what most people were tweaking around with.

Although I have built my EL84 based amp
(a Spitfire)...
I feel having a cathode biased "bigger brother" like the 6V6 family gave a lot more plug and play versatility and a MUCH easier platform to tweak.
Just throw your favorite 6V6, 6L6, KT66, KT88, 6550...and play.
No biasing needed.

smorgdonkey

03-23-2010, 03:27 PM

smorgdonkey-all from tweaking the knobs.
The guitar is a Hamer Phantom A5 (Think Andy Summers, Steve Stevens...Glen Tipton).

Also, faceplate is engraved into multilayer plastic, not silk screened.

Sounds great. If I didn't have my two Traynors I'd be interested in picking something up from you. That is a very attractive amplifier in my opinion.

Cygnus X1

03-23-2010, 03:44 PM

Sounds great. If I didn't have my two Traynors I'd be interested in picking something up from you. That is a very attractive amplifier in my opinion.

Thank you sd!
I keep telling myself I ought to pick up the pace and start producing these amps...with as many people as there are look for "that tone" at low volume.

I have a Traynor YCV80 dead in the water. Chassis only-it needs a power transformer.
Gift from an old friend (:)) but I have never been able to power it up yet.

Cygnus X1

03-23-2010, 04:30 PM

Quick pic, faceplate is not done.
Back is just power, fuse, and 4,8, 16 ohm out plus a line out.

Construction on this one is terminal strips.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1341/cyg7mar2010.jpg

pel666

03-23-2010, 05:01 PM

Cygnus X1

03-23-2010, 05:05 PM

Your builds look better and better :headbang That looks nice and tidy! Do you have a thing with raiser lugs? I think a plexi board with turret lugs would look and work great. But you might simply like this approach and it's as good. Am jabbering again :D , I like to chat about them Tubes and the decisions behind the method :thumbsup

Thank you pel.
I am making decisions from the start to make the builds look a bit better.

Turrets would be great.

I just happen to have a surplus of T-style terminal strips on hand (thanks to a '60's Baldwin organ I am harvesting).
Damn things are STRONG and smell good!

:toast

pel666

03-23-2010, 07:45 PM

Those boards are really nice and great to work with...you can drill them yourself and the press tool you can grind out of a big bolt. This was the second one I did for my Sunn (2x KT88). I shoulda used a pencil to draw a straight line for the holes :D

http://www.xs4all.nl/~pelvis/ax84/Sunn/DSC00119.JPG

helocene

03-24-2010, 12:12 AM

Cyg, Pel have either of you experimented with the Baxandall tone stack or any alternate (http://home.comcast.net/~stphkeri/tone_control.html) tone controls than the Fender/Marshall/Vox stack?

Cygnus X1

03-24-2010, 03:28 AM

Cyg, Pel have either of you experimented with the Baxandall tone stack or any alternate (http://home.comcast.net/~stphkeri/tone_control.html) tone controls than the Fender/Marshall/Vox stack?

Nice work as usual pel!
:thumbsup

hel, I've studied different tone stacks.
I like the cathode follower I ended up with here.
Bypassing it makes it sound like a Champ with a bad attitude.
A bit too harsh for my taste.

The final tone originates in what is happening prior to the
tone stack, and (as I mentioned) I did not like the way the AX84
sounded. Too forced, too buzzy...not enough natural signal.

Altering caps and types enabled me to voice it the way I wanted.
Ended up with a silver mica for the treb and Mallory 150's for mid and bass.

pel666

03-24-2010, 07:04 AM

You could implement dual tone stacks, and with a flick of a switch change from one to the other. Paul (numbers) has done a build like that!

I just stick to the proven TMB stack, even within a chosen tone stack there are so many things you can adjust to effect tone...and even using different material components will have an impact. So possibilities are basically infinate...which again makes it tough to take decisions and potentially warrant for lotsa mods! On my first AX84 build I ended up with 6 additional switches (4 at the back) for tone variations :D

KramerBassFan

03-24-2010, 01:13 PM

I like the active crossover in the link Helocene provided... that may be one of the mods that i put on my Superbass.... :thumbsup

helocene

03-25-2010, 12:49 AM

I like the way Matchless does their tone controls on the Chieftain, but I have doubts on how well that would work with a high gain setup.

I agree that the cathode follower is a nice stable spot for a tone stack, doesn't load up the last stage much.

Decisions, decisions, can't I just make them all? :D

The thing I dislike about the traditional TMB stack is there is no real way I can see to get a mid boost/cut out of it, and since the guitar lives in the midrange I keep wanting to try things that do.

KramerBassFan, I think I might try something similar on my next project as well. For now, I'm still tweaking values/types like Pel and Cygnus have done.

Mica on the pF value? I'll try that, I would have never gone that way. I usually go ceramic for pF and poly for uF.

floydkramer

03-25-2010, 07:17 PM

Cygnus,
Thanks for the info on the tubes.

I see where your coming from about the more power / more price thing due the cost of parts.
your work looks top shelf, thanks again for the info.

KramerBassFan

03-25-2010, 09:06 PM

Cygnus,
Thanks for the info on the tubes.

I see where your coming from about the more power / more price thing due the cost of parts.
your work looks top shelf, thanks again for the info.

I can vouch for that.... a 100w amp that i totally built myself cost ME $500... and thats is PARTS alone... not including the 40 or so hours it took for me to complete it... Oh and i used chinese tubes, and Weber transformers, which cost 1/4th of mercury/whatever.... so trust me, the cost gets sky high REAL fast. So Cygnus's estimate of 1,500 or 2,000 is not too out there..... just thought i'd chime in that... :toast