Tube amp distortion vs. pedal distortion... and player choise

[ElChiguete]

I was reading a post about how to get a good Satch tone an someone mention something that got me thinking, aparently Satch (like Gilmore) prefer to play on the amps clean channel and kick in a distortion pedal to have the distortion (at least in the old days).

So my questions are these:
- Is this something to consider against the amp distortion channel?
- What other player use this setup?
- Anything to consither when doing this?

[metalchurch]

I do the same thing myself.
I never liked distortion on top of distortion.

I'm using EMG'81's with an 18v mod ran into a Boss MetalZone that's run into the clean channel of my Engl tube preamp and then into my Marshall 9200.

(Guitar > Boss MT-2 > Engl620 > Marshall 9200)'
I have alot of preamp gain because of this and my poweramp isn't biased so hot because it doesn't need to be, and that helps with the tube life as well.

I use it this way because the Engl's clean side is much louder and I prefer the gain and sound of the Metal Zone. I'm basically taking advantage of the tube warmth and saturation of the Engl and more or less making it into a tubed Metal Zone.

I''ve tried the Engl by itself.
I've tried the Metal Zone into the Engl's Gain side.

So, Metal Zone + Engl clean, is the best sound I've gotten out of my set-up.

There's alot of name players who use this same aproach. I never realized that either until I was looking into it.

[Motley_Rocker1]

+1 on the BOSS Metal Zone, that is what I use into my current amp.:toast

[kramer.geetar]

I use a pedal because my amp is clean so no other way. Come to think of it I've always used a pedal though I'd love to crank a JCM 800 and hear how that sounds :D

[warbrill]

This brings up an interesting discussion of how to create distortion. I personally have not used a distortion pedal per se since the band with which I played as a senior in high school (and I have teenage grandkids). But I did use a couple of preamps (an EH LPB-1 and a DOD FET) for a while back in the early 80s. I much prefer overdrive to a stomp box, because it feels "natural" to me, and I can control it with several techniques, including the various volumes, pick attack, voicing, etc. For this, I love tube amps -- as long as I can play loud enough to make it work. At low volumes, I don't get the frequency response or saturation from a tube amp, so that's where I'll use a solid state amp with the master down. It just seems to work better, to my ear. I've got a 1982 Fender Montreux that everybody that's played through swears is a tube amp, a Roland Cube, and a small Marshall SS combo. All of them work very nicely for very small venues, but I'm not big on the SS overdrive sound at higher volumes. I think it tends to be too dry (not saturated), and doesn't even sound very good mic'd. Only the Fender can carry a slightly larger club. And beyond that, I just use my Rectoverb or TSL60 anyway!

[bkeen]

It all depends on what type of style you are playing. I have always been a natural distortion kind of guy myself, until recently. I still play some styles using natural overdrive. I also use a clean tube amp set just before the distortion point with a pedal to get it over the top on other songs. And I also have recently played with a clean tube amp with a tube preamp in front to drive the signal.

There is no right or wrong unless you use the wrong style for the song.

The most ideal setup for me is to have the bell tones when my guitars vol is turn back and get the mega overdrive when it is maxed and all points in between.

When I do use pedals for OD I try to stay with analog pedals. Digital kills me. I just hear buzzing.

:thumbsup

[Rick S]

Yup, pedal througha clean channel. And nothing beats the clean of the JC120. That is the best way to really hear how a pedal truley sounds. But, it is still fun to run a pedal into a dirty channel. You just have to dink around to find what you might have thought wasn't there. Its fun. My Epiphone Valve Jr. is an awesome amp to do this with as it only has one volume knob. Turn the volume up and you get more overdrive. Toss in a pedal and expieriment. That amp is a blast with pedals.:thumbsup

[bkeen]

I'll take a plexi clean over anything else!

;) :thumbsup

[mmmtacos]

Wow you guys have some really high end amps. Maybe I should stop buying guitars and get an amp instead:D

Seriously tho, I prefer clean amp channel, and a gt8 or gt6. In recent years I started using a Peavey Ultra tne a Prowler. Both tube amps. To me tubes make the difference, even though I'm only using the power section.

Another reason I like this setup is the versitility

[pel666]

If you got a good balanced distortion maybe regulated by an overdrive pedal nothing can beat it really! But there is the personal choice...if you like a distortion pedal's sound, you can use that on a clean amp to get the tone...and on various clean amps you would like it, hey it's the pedal you like. If you rely on distortion of the amp, on most first you have to crank it up and each has a distinctive sound. I finally found the tube amp/tube distortion combo I like far beyond anything I owned.

The search for tone.....legendary :thumbsup

[kellcats521]

I'll take a plexi clean over anything else!

;) :thumbsup


Or, a JTM45 - by far the best head/cab amp I've owned....

I have a homebuilt 18W Marshall clone that I'm also very happy with - I've really moved to tube rectifier amps where I use an attenuator and a tube screamer to get the tone/volume that I'm looking for.

[KramerGeek]

I prefer to plug straight into the High input on my Marshall. No extra chords. No extra toys to break down. No batteries to die. Plus, I really like that tone.

If I DO decide to use a pedal, I use the Low input with a higher setting on the Master volume so that the pedal is putting distortion onto a very clean setting on the amp.

[pel666]

Yep, you can see the guys that 'found it' have quite different (and often expensive ;) ) setups, I own a 36W boutique Marshall clone with only a Nady 80's TD1 stompbox to push my amp and the setup ROARS! :headbang And I wouldn't change it for the world!!!

I just got a Big Muff for my birthday from my parents in law...can't wait to try it out on my amp at the next rehearsal :headbang

[PacerMedic]

I refuse to pigeonhole my sound. The only consistency is that if I leave the house to play, I pack tubes. I love the XT Live for dinking around and it's a great practice aid, but for tone nothing beats a great tube amp, with or without a pedal. I'll run a distortion hot enough to give me a high gear on either channel. The more versatile your amp, the less you rely on pedals. As long as I can get a glassy, clear clean sound and crunchy squealy, harmonic-laden distortion, I don't need a pedal; those things can be like putters when you're in a pedal-maniac phase! :D

[kb7010]

From time to time I have used a dink/stomp box for dirt.. but man is it ever a killer one.. it has 2 12ax7 tubes in it.. what is it you ask..??? lol

well it is a Mesa Boogie V-Twin.. it can do just about anything.. from clean to blues to rip your head off dirt sounds.. grea tthrough a PA also ( in case your amp does break done ..) so a amp in a small package is what it really is..!!! :thumbsup

try one and you may NEVER go back.. :headbang

BTW: they are selling cheap on fleabay right now.. ~$250.00 .. just a few months ago.. you couldn't get one for less than $400.00 ..!!!!!! :yikes

[PacerMedic]

V-Twins rock! :headbang

Hell, you can use that as a preamp, period! I wouldn't trade mine for anything, but I do want to try a twin tube mayhem some day. :toast

[NightRider]

you guys will hate me... i use my JCM 800 2210 as a slave amp... its there just for power... and run my gnx3 thru it and it controls everything... all knobs on the marshall set to 0...

[mmmtacos]

Nothing wrong with that:thumbsup

[metalchurch]

I have a homebuilt 18W Marshall clone that I'm also very happy with - I've really moved to tube rectifier amps where I use an attenuator and a tube screamer to get the tone/volume that I'm looking for.

I saw home brew kits to build your own, so is that what you used?
I'd love to have a 10,20, or 30 watt tube combo amp to mess around with.

@pel666, I bet that 36w Clone is amazing sounding!

@kb7010 and PacerMedic, I forgot all about that V-Twin pedal! I remember seeing that, but I never tried it.
How does it compare to the V-Twin rack preamp if at all?

[_xxx_]

^^ MetalZone, that is probably the crappiest sounding distortion pedal I ever tried. Really guys, you should try some better stuff just for comparison, might open your eyes/ears. You don't even realize what you're missing. Even the old DS-1 kicks MZ in the nuts with ease.

I used to use pedals until I got some really good sounding amps which killed the pedals for me once and for all.

Example1: if you ever find a Crate Stealth amp, plug in your guitar and test the distorted channel. You'll want to have it.

Example2: any amp from the Peavey Triple XXX series will give you several great distorted sounds to choose from.

And I won't even mention Mesa amps, V-Twin and such.

Any of these will simply kill any non-tube pedal out there in every regard, period.

If it HAS to be a pedal, go for a good tube pedal like Tonebone stuff, Yerasov Tube Monster, Duncan Tube Mayhem or such. Expensive high-end stuff is always a good bet.

[_xxx_]

As for Such and Gilmore, none of them plays with a pedal pluged into an amp. They both have huge racks full of stuff and many buttons and a tech to control it all. Don't fall for the usual marketing talk in the interviews, that's just bull.

[ElChiguete]

I know that when Satch plays live he only uses a handfull of pedals straight in to the amps... but Gilmore DID use a LOT of pedals and amps and everything live.

[Rick S]

I say try everything you can. You never know what you can come up with. $$$ just doesn't equal good tone. It can't. I don't know to many people who buy a Peavey XXX for certain distored tones and then buy a Mesa for another. I know those amps are awesome and I'm sure there are some guys who can afford that but not to many. Don't fall for the 'I have to sell my car and boat to buy good tone' crap. Pedals are a really really good and affordable way to explore tone. Believe in yourself first and foremost and take advice frome tone snobs or me with a grain of salt.:thumbsup

[amerturk]

I agree that a clean tube without all the monkee shit knobs and distortions is the best bet. I have two tube amps. The controls are Volume, Mid, Treble, Bass and Master Volume....thats it. It was designed over the old VOX and Marshall Plexi's.

I have tried every possible pedal combination over the last few years and simply don't like the sound of tone sucking pedals. I've had every Boss distortion pedal known to man and still didn't find my sound.

It comes down to you. If you like the sound you have, it's yours and stick with it. It's not about how much you paid or how good it looks. Ever hear this before? "Man that dude sounded like shit, but damn! his gear was cool"

I have no idea what my amps are worth...custom made, top of the line components and ZERO hiss/hum. I would guess probably my 100 watter is around 2-3k on the market....but here is my point. I have this fantastic amp...one of 2 made at this point and I use a cheap RP50 Digitech for my distortion....because it's the sound I dialed in and stuck with it.

Sound is the holy grail of everything. You can go mad trying to find it. Some will never find it. If you do discover it, don't let it go. :)

[warbrill]

There's a lot of good advice in this thread. If I take anything from the overall thread, it's "What works for YOU is best." The style(s) of music you play, the volume you play, the physical configuration of the room(s) in which you play ... all of them factor in. I play in a "classic rock" band, but every such band defines "classic rock" differently. We play 60s, 70s, 80s, and since we're always asking for requests ("Stump the band!") we end up playing some pretty hard core country from time to time. Doesn't bother me! We're musicians, but the business we're in is entertainment.

We play mostly fairly small clubs (cap. 60-100) but also a few "festival" gigs (outdoor in amphitheatres and such) every year. I have to be prepared for all of these. Some players can get their sound using the same rig at any volume. I can't, so I use different equipment, based on the venue. If it unnecessarily complicates my life, I don't mind. As I said, if it works for me, it's right. When people ask me how to get the sound they want, I tell them two things: 1) Ask everyone you know. I'm no expert. and 2) Try everything you can. What works for me might not for you.

[NightRider]

crate stealth:thumbsup simpley the best amp head i ever had:headbang wish i had it back

[_xxx_]

Me too, I could kick myself in the nuts 100 times a day for selling it :banghead :banghead :banghead

[JGB]

I've always used my pedalboard in conjunction with the clean channel on the amp. I don't like using amp distortion and distortion from a pedal together, but I find if you roll the gain off your amps dirty channel and then kick on a distortion you can get some nice tones.