Ah, so many amps. Which is best for 80's rock?

[FireHalen]

Hello. I'm new to the forum and am returning to the guitar after fifteen years non-activity. It's been a long time and I'm slowly getting my fingers back.

There are so many amps out there. Which do I buy for an 80's sound? There are other questions, too: How many watts do you need for a gig? Are tubes best for the 80's sound?

I've heard the Peavy Valve King is good as well as a Fender Superchamp. Are there other good amps out there? Randall? Crate? Laney?

I get confused when I walk into Guitar Center and see all those amps. :yikes

Any advice?

FireHalen

[zentropa]

tubes are best for any sound imo unless you are after some super duper sterile hospital feeling clean tones that are bright enough to burn the nose hairs off a dead nun.

are there any bands in particular whose sound you are trying to resemble?

as for wattage... how large of room do you need to fill soundwise without being mic'd?

as for volume, 50 tube watts should be sufficient (looking at more like 100-150 watts for solid state). i've found the main difference in 50 vs. 100 tube watts is the amount of clean headroom you have moreso than the actual tone. 50 will break up at lower volumes.

as for particular models what kind of price range are you looking at?

also, what features do you want/need? single channel vs. channel switching? reverb? great dirty sound or great clean sound (i've found it hard to get both without breaking the bank)?

i personally wouldn't recommend buying anything new. as the depreciation on amps once they get out of the store and become "used" is massive.

out of new amps, i would say the valve king is probably the "best value" as its price point is very reasonable.

for used amps it's pretty easy to stumble across a peavey 5150 or marshall jcm900/2000/600 used for a reasonable amount that will give a solid drive sound. sovteks are an even better value if you find one relatively cheap. none of these will really shine clean.

for amps with a good clean tone and a "passable" dirty tone the fender "the twin" (aka the evil twin) or a fender super 60 or something along those lines are often a decent value.

imo, i'd go after the same stuff you wanted 15 years ago as i don't think amps have changed much for the better in that time span.

[nhspike]

I agree with zen.

That being said, the Peavey Valveking is tough to beat for about 400 bucks... I don't think you'll feel like you're missing anything if you buy one.

I bought one just to have kicking around...

I may buy another, so I can run my RP-250 in stereo tube amp nirvana... LOL.

It's a real good spare to my Mesa Recto, and I don't mind tossing it it in the trunk of my car to go jam out with my buddies.

The Recto involves too much labor to move. :D

A good used Mesa F-30 is a tough thing to beat... in my opinion... keep an eye on local Craig's list/Music stores and see if you can scoop one of them.

There are all kinds of cool amps out there these days.

These are just my idea of what's come out "lately" that you may find yourself digging.

:toast

Oh, and... Welcome to the forum guys!
:thumbsup

[BeN5150]

I'm thinking of picking up a Laney AOR, they sound great, and are fairly cheap

[nightwatch]

There was another thread here on this topic recently, you may want to do a search for that as well.

Used, a 50 watt Marshall JCM800 2205. I absolutely love mine. You really don't need more than 50 watts. Also, Carvin just came out with a reissue of the X100B - a lot of '80s bands used that one too.

I also agree, the Peavey Valveking is good also. Its modeled after the older Marshall sound.

I know it seems confusing if you're just getting back into it, but the ones posted here by everyone should get you into the ballpark.

Also, a huge key (at least in NYC where I lived and played metal during the '80s and early '90s), a piece of equipment it seems everyone used, was the ADA-1 preamp. The Marshall heads were used as power amps and the ADA was plugged into the amps send/return.

I'm looking forward to checking out the new Carvin one. You can find the X100B used for pretty inexpensive.

Let us know what you decide.:bananahea

[velocity]

+1 on the laney AOR's. i have two that i love.

[BeN5150]

+1 on the laney AOR's. i have two that i love.

man, you've got all sorts of shit :D

and soon, some will be mine!

[velocity]

yes. yes it will... muhaaahahaaaa

[zentropa]

Used, a 50 watt Marshall JCM800 2205.

those were the 1x12 combo version of that right? unfortunately, i've notced the jcm800 heads have gone way up in the past 5-7 years. can still snag a lot of the jcm800 1x12's for a great price if you aren't too picky on the model.



my advice i would give for an amp search is to pick a flavor of tone you are looking for as your main focus:

clean clean with headroom
warm clean with mild break
marshall-styled gain
mesa-styled gain
vox-styled tone

most amps are flavored in a similar manner of one of the above. imo that's really the first step to decide on.

secondly, combo vs. head? if combo, what size do you want? (1x12, 2x12, 2x10, 1x15, 4x10, etc.)


hehe, i used to play an ada-1 w/ an ada microtube hybrid amp. hearing that mentioned brings back some memories.

[PacerMutt]

The Ada Mp1 was the shiznit back in the day... another sweet pre amp was a Pierce, can't recall the model number...
Anyway back to the question... A few of the older Peavey's can still be found pretty cheap on ebay... I used a Rockmaster head with a 4x12 cab back in the early eighties... Then moved onto a Truimph 60 1x12 for a practice amp... Another good one was the Marshall 800's as mentioned above... I'd like to have a 800 2x12 combo amp :thumbsup

[Floyd Boy]

i'd have to say the best small combo i've had
and still do is my peavy transtube rage 158 amp
if i remabar corcttley its got ethar a 8 or 10 running
at i think 50 watts has nice clean soud perfect for slow clapton type stuff turn on the over drive and you have 80's metal tube distrotion type sound.
:thumbsup

[kb7010]

Gale/Nightwatch is right on the money.. can't beat a Marshall 2205 50 watt HEAD..!!!! ( not a combo )

now with that being said.. I had a 5150 head and that thing would lay it down.. brown sound no problem.. that thing is a brute.. cleans OK..

but the best clean and dirt I have EVER heard ( without adding ANYTHING ) is a Boogie.. those are high end amps.. but man.. the clean channel is to die for.. and the dirt channel is killer also.. my next amp..!!!! that should tell you how I feel about those.. I am thinking of selling my Marshall 2205 50 watt head.. but as you know.. they are very pricey..!!! plus mine is mint.. one little mark on Tolex that is it.. other than that.. it looks new.. and you have to look up close to see the small mark in the Tolex.. in fact I am going to try and super glue it to fix it and I bet you wouldn't be able to find it.. unless I told you about it.. ( which I just did.. lol )

one thing about a tube am though.. one night you have your killer tone.. the next night .. your tone is different.. kind of why a S.S. amp is neat to have.. everything gets a Mic on it if you are going to gig out.. the PA is what makes the amp sound even better.. so as long as your amp can keep up with the drummer ( stage volume ) it doesn't matter if you have 5 watts or 500 watts..

true story.. back in the day .. you had to have a Marshall stack to be cool.. so I bought the bottom cabinet..( 1960B) long story short.. it NEVER got used. as my stage volume was to loud with it.. plus the volume from the bottom cabinet went right past my feet anyway.. that is what makes those things the have out for combos neat.. a stand that you put your combo amp on and it is at a angle..!!!

just my advice to you..

best thing is to try them out and see what floats your boat.. not what they ( the music store ) needs to sell.. don't buy a spider Line 6 75 watt amp/combo unless you buy the high end one made with tubes.. <-- again just my advice..
need a cheap amp..??? check out a Roland Cube 60..great amp as far as bang for buck.. it is a S.S. amp.. but again everything get a Mic on it.. ( through PA ) to make you sound better..!!!! I have one and I can keep up with the drummer no problem.. I just leave that amp where we practice/jam at..!!!!!

best of luck..!!!

[Mac]

and on the 8th day God created the Peavey Valveking Head and Cabinet speakers

[Rick S]

IMO that general "'80s sound" is quite easy to get.:thumbsup Cripes, I can get it with just about any amp I've ever used. Tube or SS. Thing is I love to use pedals. I know lots of folks like to just plug in and thats great. But I like pedals and get a great tone that way. Keep in mind that tone stems from you first. The way you attack the strings and such. That being said I love my Roland JC 120 for everything I do. It is from my experience that the JC will hold its own with most any tube amp around. Definetly NOT sterile. But hey, what do I know. Just take a day to try out as many amps as possible at your local store. Bring your own guitar and just test the shit out of everything you can. Thats the best way to go I think. Good Luck!:thumbsup


Hello. I'm new to the forum and am returning to the guitar after fifteen years non-activity. It's been a long time and I'm slowly getting my fingers back.

There are so many amps out there. Which do I buy for an 80's sound? There are other questions, too: How many watts do you need for a gig? Are tubes best for the 80's sound?

I've heard the Peavy Valve King is good as well as a Fender Superchamp. Are there other good amps out there? Randall? Crate? Laney?

I get confused when I walk into Guitar Center and see all those amps. :yikes

Any advice?

FireHalen

[Shwayman11]

Plus 1 on the Marshall JCM 800 2205
I have the combo version now (4210) and am trading it for the 2205. It sounds like heaven on earth and i cant imagine wanting any other amp than that one

[FireHalen]

Wow, lots of good input here.

A few thoughts.

First, as far as an amp having a "clean" and "dirty" sound, I'd like one with a good dirty sound, so whatever amp delivers on the dirty sound is the one I'm going for. Thanks, Zen, for making this distinction.

What kind of dirty sound? I like the sound of Poison's "Open up and Say Ah," Dokken's "Tooth and Nail," and various Winger stuff. Does that narrow down the amps a bit? Which amp am I looking for?

Second, the channels on an amp--single channel vs. channel switching. I don't know enough about amps to know what that is. I plan on having a few effects--chorus, flange, delay--so whatver amp works best with these effects is the amp I'd like to get.

Third, combo vs stack? Wow, I don't know. I like both, I guess, but I'd say a combo--at least for now. I like the 1X12 stuff but am open to other suggestions.

Ben5150 had mentioned a Laney amp. I've heard some Laneys (didn't DeMartini play a Laney once?) and they sounded pretty sweet. I'll definitely test one out.

And finally, what in the world is a preamp? Someone had mentioned the ADA-1 preamp. I have no idea what this is/does. I've often seen a thin, box-like device with neon lights atop an amp or a stack. Is this a preamp? What does it do? Do I need one?

Thanks to everyone for the posts. This has been quite and education. thumbsup

FireHalen

[FireHalen]

Wow, lots of good input here.

A few thoughts.

First, as far as an amp having a "clean" and "dirty" sound, I'd like one with a good dirty sound, so whatever amp delivers on the dirty sound is the one I'm going for. Thanks, Zen, for making this distinction.

What kind of dirty sound? I like the sound of Poison's "Open up and Say Ah," Dokken's "Tooth and Nail," and various Winger stuff. Does that narrow down the amps a bit? Which amp am I looking for?

Second, the channels on an amp--single channel vs. channel switching. I don't know enough about amps to know what that is. I plan on having a few effects--chorus, flange, delay--so whatver amp works best with these effects is the amp I'd like to get.

Third, combo vs stack? Wow, I don't know. I like both, I guess, but I'd say a combo--at least for now. I like the 1X12 stuff but am open to other suggestions.

Ben5150 had mentioned a Laney amp. I've heard some Laneys (didn't DeMartini play a Laney once?) and they sounded pretty sweet. I'll definitely test one out.

And finally, what in the world is a preamp? Someone had mentioned the ADA-1 preamp. I have no idea what this is/does. I've often seen a thin, box-like device with neon lights atop an amp or a stack. Is this a preamp? What does it do? Do I need one?

Thanks to everyone for the posts. This has been quite and education.:thumbsup

FireHalen

[zentropa]

FireHalen:

sounds like something marshall-esque is going to be right up your alley. there's tons of options to choose form on these (jcm 800, 900, 2000, 600, jtm 30/60) and a lot of non-marshall tube amps are voiced to sound similar to marshalls.

as for channel switcher vs. single channel.
basically, a channel switcher has a footswitch to go from the "clean" (in quotes since not all will be all that clean) to the drive channel. some amps will have 3-4 channels with varying stages of gain on each channel. clean/crunch/lead, etc.

with a single channel amp you'll either be dialling in a great gain sound and rolling back volume w/ the knob or a volume pedal to get clean, or dialling in as clean a sound as you can get and using a distortion/overdrive pedal to kick over the top.

if you plan on running effects i'd recommend finding one with an effects loop.

i'll rundown a quickie list of stuff you can use to help price things out and/or do research and keep your eyes open for.
marshall channel switchers:
JCM2000 - all TSL/DSL
JCM600 - 600 head, 601/602 combos.
JCM900 - 4500/4100 heads, 4501/4502/4101/4102 combos
JCM800 - 2205/2210 heads, 4210/4211/4212 combos (an odd ball hybrid is the 3203/4203 artist series, tube power w/ solid state preamp, often found very cheap)
Silver Jubilee - 2550/2555 heads, 2554/2558 combos.

non-marshall channel switchers that are generally affordable (under $600, keep in mind there's tons of other options, this is a very short list):
peavey 5150/6505 - head or combo (i got my 5150 2x12 combo for $380)
peavey valve king - head or combo
misc. peavey amps - xxx, jsx (not cheap), duel, and more i can't recall offhand.

single channel:
JCM800 - 2203/2204 heads, 4010/4103/4104 combos
JCM900 - 2500/2100 heads, 2501/2502/2101/2102 combos

non-marshall budget oriented single channel:
sovtek - mig 50/60/100 heads, midget combos

as for combos vs. stacks, there is a small sound difference on the models that are open back in combo form vs. closed back cabinets in stacks. a few of the combos are closed back and this will have less tone change. combos are usually relatively cheap compared to the heads. 1x12's usually sell for less than 2x12's. often you can get either one for the same price as a head (or in some cases cheaper). the 5150 combo has different specs from the head (it's 60 watts 2-channel whereas the head is 120 watts 3-channel).

i have only played 1 tube laney ever... and it was for about 5 minutes about 9 years ago and i just can't remember :(

hopefully this list will help give a basis of what to check out and look for. i tend to use superstores like guitar center to go see what tones/features i want (e.g. testing the amps from this list that are still in production) but then seeking out used stuff that is often half the price or less.

[BeN5150]

Just to show that I wont suggest something without atleast using it myself, when I get some money for an amp, It'll be for a Laney AOR, I'll have to watch Ebay or something, unless one of you guys has a spare lol

[mmmtacos]

My Crate VTX200s has an awesome 80s sound. And 3 channels to boot.

But I prefer my Peavey Ultras and Prowlers for tube sound:thumbsup

[Mr. Mom]

I've been doing a lot of research into 80's hairmetal type amps that are floating around these days (good lord there are a TON). I'm just going to list amps that can 'get that tone' using guitar > cable > head > cab:

Depends on the budget, but:
Soldano SLO (priciest of options I'll post)
Soldano HotRod 50+ (out of production, but available on eBay from time to time)

Peavey 5150 II (has seperate EQs for the 2 channels, readily available on eBay, toneful and relatively inexpensive)

Marshall JCM800 2205 (prices for the 2205 are less than the 2203/2204 and it has more gain on tap)

Laney AOR (look for the version with the metal corner protectors, not the plastic). Great amps! Pop up regularly on eBay as well.

Splawn Competition (used for a very reasonable price, killer tones, 1/2 power switch dropping it to 30 watts...great for live/club playing, or around the house)

Tons of other small builders out there...lots and lots and lots. Fargen Olde 800 is another that comes to mind...as does his Mini and Might Plex (have London power scaling to drop the power from 12 to 1/2 watts on the Mini and 30 to 1/2 watts on the Mighty - uses EL34 tubes so you get all the juicy tone complete with girth and a tight low end).

I could go on and on and on...but those were the top in my list. Oh, and I decided to go with the Splaw Competition.

[FireHalen]

Okay, these were helpful posts. Thanks, Zen, for the rundown on the Marshalls. I've seen all the Marshalls on Guitar Center and MF and there were over 100 of them. Exhausting. This helps narrow things down a bit.

It seems the bottom line is to take a guitar to a local music store and plug into twenty amps. I don't have a price limit. I want something that is good for practice and for gigs (the average bar on the college strip or a small warehouse). I'd like a tube amp with a few channels and an FX loop. That pretty much sums it up.

I'l definitely check out the Marshalls and Peaveys and will look into Crate as well.:thumbsup

FireHalen

[zentropa]

Depends on the budget, but:
Soldano SLO (priciest of options I'll post)
Soldano HotRod 50+ (out of production, but available on eBay from time to time)

these are great amps. i regret not picking 1 or more up when they were cheaper and i had the money. the SLO is one of my all time favorite amps and there was time when i could have gotten one for $1300 used (they were around $2700 new then, now i believe they're in the $3300+ range new).

the hot rods used to be in the $500-800 range used, but i've heard they are at least double that now.


I've seen all the Marshalls on Guitar Center and MF and there were over 100 of them. Exhausting. This helps narrow things down a bit.

it can be a handful. as for marshalls, i'm not sure if the newer ones have gotten better durability-wise but during the first few years of the jcm2000 series there were a lot of complaints about the tube sockets and i knew a lot of people that "upgraded" from jcm900's to 2000's and then went back.

if a "few" (i'm reading this as 3+) channels and an effects loop are what you are looking for that's enough to filter down some choices. personally, i've always liked peavey effects loops better than marshalls...

amps that fit the bill (most of these are still in production as the 3 channel thing didn't get popular until more recently):
Peavey 5150 or 5150 II (current production models of these are the 6505 and 6505+) 3 channel 120 watts
EVH 5150 III (the III has a much better clean channel than the 5150 I and II) 3 channel 100 watts
Peavey JSX 3 channel 120 watts
Peavey XXX 3 channel 120 watts
Marshall JCM 2000 TSL60 or TSL100

as for price range, the reason i go used is because i figure if i can get one for half the price, i can buy 2 :) also if you get an amp new for $1000 and don't like it and sell it for $600 and buy another amp for $1000 you've in essence spent $1400 on the 2nd amp. however, if you get a used one for $600, don't like it and sell it for $600, buy another used one for $600, etc... it doesn't hurt as much hehe.


lso, Carvin just came out with a reissue of the X100B - a lot of '80s bands used that one too.

i read this earlier but it slipped my mind when i was typing a reply.

i've never been a fan of carvin cabinets, but their heads and a handful of combos i've played have been good. i will fully admit the only ones i've had more than 5 minutes experience with were from the vintage series or the steve vai legacy. carvins amps have a reasonable new price but very poor value retention, which makes for a great deal on a used one :)

[PacerPete]

Mesa Booggie. Expensive, but the hold their value. Its nice to have hand built made in the USA equipment. :usa

[Mr. Mom]

these are great amps. i regret not picking 1 or more up when they were cheaper and i had the money. the SLO is one of my all time favorite amps and there was time when i could have gotten one for $1300 used (they were around $2700 new then, now i believe they're in the $3300+ range new).

the hot rods used to be in the $500-800 range used, but i've heard they are at least double that now.


Yes, the HR50+ models are a pretty solid $1200 on the used market. THe HR50 (single channel) are getting between $8-900 used.

[mrcrazyhimself]

The 80's sound was a cranked Marshall ''insert model here'' with a tubescreamer or boss sd-1- EVH, Demartini, Lynch, Sambora. Thats the trick...

[pel666]

I agree, JCM900 plus TubeScreamer plus Chorus plus Delay....that's what I had back in the day ;)

Darn, was that poetry :scratchhe :D

[FireHalen]

mrcrazy and 666, what is a tubescreamer? is this a pedal?

I had a hunch that chorus and delay would be in there somewhere. I was just listening to VH's "Where Have all the Good Times Gone" and I think Eddie had a chorus pedal going on those chords.

I'm guessing the amp is part of the 80's sound. The other part deals with pedals, pickups, how you attack the strings with your fingers (as another poster had said). Is there an order? Which one is the most important part? The amp? The pickups? The pedals? Your fingers?

These postings have been very useful. If I hang out here long enough, I'll soon be up to speed on things.:headbang

Firehalen

[zentropa]

The 80's sound was a cranked Marshall ''insert model here'' with a tubescreamer or boss sd-1- EVH, Demartini, Lynch, Sambora. Thats the trick...

agreed :)



what is a tubescreamer? is this a pedal?


an overdrive pedal manufactured by ibanez and maxon and based upon the JRC4558D op amp chip. these were a fairly transparent overdrive pedals used to help a tube amp kick over harder or at lower volumes.

there's been several incarnations of the tubescreamer. these ones have the JRC4558D:
original Ibanez TS808 (from the 70's)
original Ibanez TS9 (from ~82-84)
Ibanez TS10 (from ~85-88?)
resissue ibanez TS808
maxon OD808
maxon OD9 (and variants)

these versions have a different op amp (usually TA7558)
reissue TS9 (~92 to present, pcb's made by maxon through ~97)
ibanez soundtank TS5
ibanez tone-lok TS7

this pedal was a farily simple design, so nearly any model of these can be easily modded to the original TS808 or TS9 specs.

these pedals share a similar circuit to the tubescreamer and also can be modded to similar specs without a lot of effort:
Boss OD-1 (nearly identical to the TS9 but with asymmetrical clipping for a slightly more open tone)
Boss SD-1 (similar to OD-1 but with a midboost and slightly more gain)

basically, tubescreamers are known for kicking you to the next level of gain while retaining warmth and note definition.

this most common before pre-jcm900 channel switchers though (the first jcm900's were single channel)... the newer 3 channel amps generally have enough gain to not need one of these.


I'm guessing the amp is part of the 80's sound. The other part deals with pedals, pickups, how you attack the strings with your fingers (as another poster had said). Is there an order? Which one is the most important part? The amp? The pickups? The pedals? Your fingers?

#1 is definitely fingers/hands :)
#2 is imo, the amp.

the rest of it matters, but it matters a LOT more if you don't have the amp nor fingers.

my advice is to start with a solid foundation and make adjustments with pedals/pickups as needed. if you are way off with the amp, the more adjustments with pedals and pickups are needed.

[zentropa]

i also forgot to mention that the MXR distortion+ was also a common pedal found on a lot of 80's rigs.

[nightwatch]

That kind of chorusy sound you hear with EVH isn't chorus. For many leads he used the MXR Phase 90. MXR recently put out a reissue of the one he had based on the old '70s script logo. So, you want the MXR Phase 90 for leads. Put the knob on 9:00 - you'll hear his lead sound.

For alot of his "chorusy" rythym tone, he used an MXR flange (I think). He was/is a phase/flange person.

When you get your amp, put a delay pedal through the loop, on the floor a tubescreamer or Boss SD-1 and an MXR Phase 90. You'll be amazed at how close you can get.:bananahea

[mrcrazyhimself]

I'll help you out FireHalen...

Amp- Any All Tube Marshall will get you there. Mostly the Plexi/Superlead/JMP/ JCM800 series was used. No offence to any JCM900 Users but i've never ever heard a good one and i've heard quite a few.

Guitar- Kramer/Jackson/Charvel/ESP with a JB in the bridge.

Effects- This can range quite a bit but my pedal board consists of a Boss OD-3, Jap Boss CE-2, Vox Wah, Korg Tuner and a Jap Boss DD-3.

With a Marshall Rig with very little effects, Your guitar makes a HUGE inpact. To be honest, My nightswan with the Seymour Duncan Full Shred does not cut it but through a more compressed amp it sounds better. I suggest either a Seymour Custom Custom/ Custom/ or the JB.

With that rig, Pretty much any sound of the 80's can be tweaked and had. :thumbsup

[FireHalen]

All right, I'm getting the picture. A Marshall. A Kramer/Jackson/Charvel. A humbucker at the bridge. An MXR Phaser/Flanger. A Tubescreamer. I guess the rest is just tweaking the knobs?

It seems like your fingers are a big part of the sound. I heard a story about Van Halen playing Ted Nugent's guitar and Nugent couldn't believe how much it sounded like Eddie. It was all in the fingerwork.

The amp seems key also. I'll keep my eye out for a simple Marshall amp (50 watts) with tubes and two channels. That should do it.

This is the first guitar forum I've joined. If I didn't have the Internet, I'd be forced to trial and error all of this. This forum been a huge time saver (and possibly money saver, too.):urock

If anyone has any more advice, I'd be glad to hear it.:thumbsup

FireHalen

[zentropa]

A Tubescreamer.

i would recommend sampling both the tubescreamer as well as an SD-1 and OD-3 from boss (both of which are still in production) as all are similar voicings of drive but you may find you have a distinct preference for symmetrical (tubescreamer) or asymmetrical clipping (boss). it may depend upon which amp you get. i prefer symmetrical cilpping for amps with "tighter" distortion and asymmetrical clipping for amps with "looser" distortion.

if you do decide to go with a tubescreamer my personal recommendation would be the maxon OD9. better quality components and true bypass switching.

*note: the SD-1 has a tone bleed problem when the pedal is in bypass mode. it's an easy fix for about $5 in parts and 3 solders.

imo, MXR has the best non-boutique phaser in production (phase 90).


No offence to any JCM900 Users but i've never ever heard a good one and i've heard quite a few.

they are very compressed sounding compared to JCM800's imo, which i was told years ago was the triode vs. pentode type amp distortions (someone please correct me if i'm wrong on this). i've found they open up a bit if there's an open backed cabinet, but the gain structure is very different.

900's are more chugga chugga while 800's are better at melting faces.

i was searching for a jcm 800 4210/4212 when my other amp died 2 days before a gig. i ended up with a jcm 900 4102 as it was the only thing i could find used locally on that short of notice and it's still going strong. never quite got me the perfect tone but was never bad enough for me to ditch it :)

there was a jcm900 combo that had selectable wattage outputs that swapped between pentode and triode overdrives that sounded closer to 800's when in half-power mode.

i'm figuring firehalen wants to keep some options open as the more selective you are when it comes to choosing an out of production amp, the longer it will take to find one. although that's often the trade off between not quite getting the perfect sound vs. having to wait a few months to get the perfect one.

[warbrill]

On JCM2000 TSL models, I recommend the TSL100. I have the TSL60, and it's got plenty of power to do any reasonable stage. But the TSL100 has separate equalization for the crunch and lead channels, while the 60 shares between the two. When I bought my TSL60, I didn't realize how important this might be. But now that I've had the TSL for a while, I'm finding that I want to set the crunch channel for a much cleaner sound than I did at first, and use the lead channel more for the pedal to the metal dirty sound. Equalization for a bright but overdriven sound (think SRV) is a whole lot different than the classic 80s metal sound. The extra 40 watts is nice to have, but if you really need it, the band is too loud, anyway!:lol :lol

[mrcrazyhimself]

I suggest a single channel. It makes you a better player and forces more tone from your hands than a channel switcher. I hate how every channel switcher has a monster gain channel thats overly compressed...

[warbrill]

I suggest a single channel. It makes you a better player and forces more tone from your hands than a channel switcher. I hate how every channel switcher has a monster gain channel thats overly compressed...
In some ways, this is like the debate about single hum guitars vs. multi pup axes. Some folks look at a single hum guitar as a one trick pony, and others say it's the ultimate creativity tool. The Baretta clan says all the pups and switches and tone controls are just so much fluff they don't need. It comes down to how you want to create your sound, in my opinion. I don't think there's one best way.

On this forum, I read a lot of articles where people are using stomp boxes to get overdrive and distortion, but I personally like to get it from the interplay of pick attack, gain, and overdrive on the preamp section of my TSL. I don't think my way is the best, but it works for me.

And I'm not trying to refute what you're saying. It is absolutely true that if you don't have the variety of sounds available by kicking a footswitch, that you'll have to make them some other way. Or you won't make the different tones, and your sound will be the same from song to song. That might or might not be a problem. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are many ways to get from Point A to Point B, and your suggestion is a very good one. But as with everything else where there's a decision, there are tradeoffs.

[FireHalen]

This is some good stuff. A little overwhelming (with all the models, knobs/switches, loops, etc) but I'll get through it all.

Also, if anyone can suggest a tube amp (50-60 watts) that is SIMPLE to work with, let me know. My brain doesn't work well with lots of knobs, switches, and the like--I get very confused.:yikes I like the simplicity of the Laney but it looks like Marshall/Peavey is the amp I'm going for.


Lee

[tone-wrecker]

hi, everyone seems to have had sonmething to say, but im going to add my 2 yen if thats ok.

from the sounds of what your after, you are going to need a marshall. thats my oppinion. you could get a messa, a soldano a whatever etc and play with them to get the suond, and you will. but i think its just easier to get a marshall. because an overdriven tube marshal IS the 80's sound.

based on your description i dont think your going to like the 900, a dsl/tsl. i reckon you are best with a jtm45 or a jcm800. an 800 with an sd-1 (boss pedal) or a tube screamer in front of it. i reccomend buying one of the moded analog man sd-1 pedals. a fantastic purchase. i use one of them in front of my 800 all the sime just do add a tiny bit extra, give it a bit of a push. for the heavier sort of sounds, i use a boss metal zone (mooded again - got a fantastic loudness tone out of my amp yesterday), or a boss ds-1 pedal (again modded), and i get a great dokken sound with that.

jcm800, is a great amp, and it is simple too. presense, low, mid, high, volume, gain. no bullshit. only downside is if you want to get some clean sounds (without having to turn the gain down - which i dont :headbang ) you may have to get another amp or something.






oh and another thing, i dont know what you are going to be using all this for. but if it is just for jamming around in the house. i reccomend a roland cube amp. such a fantastic sound, cheap and i got some excellent 80's sounds out of it.

[Red Neck 5150]

Peavy 5150 or 6505....Love Mine.:thumbsup

[zentropa]

FH:

did you decide on if you wanted a head/cab vs. a combo?

also, did you have a reasonable time-frame you wanted your search to take?

i believe those two things will help give your search more direction.

the latter may be even more important as some of the older models of marshalls may take more than a month to track down to find one in a price/condition combination that is worthwhile. if you want to get up and going ASAP, that may trim some options.

some of the newer model amps (1990-present) are a lot easier to track down and often are cheap (possibly cheap enough to be used as an intermediary until the "perfect" model can be tracked down).

i'd definitely recommend getting out to the music stores and playing as many as you can to get a better feel of what will fit you.

there's currently a JCM800 2203 reissue out there and the 6505/6505+. it's not too hard to track down NOS JCM2000's. there's also the 1959/1987 plexi resissues. the process of elimination can happen pretty quickly. e.g. if you decide you love or hate the more compressed (pentode) distortion of the jcm900/2000/600 and 5150/6505's, that will eliminate about 50% of the possibilities.

i've honestly never played any of the JVM series stuff nor even heard it, but you may want to give those a sampling.

a last amp to toss out there that i mentioned briefly but didn't go in depth on...
the marshall silver jubilee series (grey tolex in '87, black tolex '88 till ~'90)

2-channels, selectable 50/25 watts. basically sounds like a jcm800 on the drive channel but with a "better" (cleaner) clean channel.
there model numbers on these are:
2550 (head)
2554 (1x12)
2558 (2x12)
2555 (head, slash signature series)

[FireHalen]

I think everybody is right--a Marshall is what I'm going for. It was the 80's amp, though occasionally a rebel would use something different (a Roland, a Boogie, etc). So yes, I'll be on the lookout for a JCM 800/900.

I think Zen had mentioned a head/cab vs the combo. That's a good question, one I haven't thought about yet. I guess I'd shoot for a combo, something I can practice and gig with. Unless there's a benefit to having a head/cab? I forgot to ask about this.

When do I need the amp? Not anytime soon. Once I build up my fingers--about a year from now--I'll post an in the paper and then get the Retta and the Marshall. Until then, I want to learn all I can about this stuff.

Having said that, I've checked out some of these amps on Youtube. Some of them sound pretty sweet. I've found this site very helpful (there are even Van Halen MXR demos. Very nice.)

[zentropa]

combo vs. head/cab...

head/cab advantages:
you can choose your cab size
more potential volume
potentially easier to transport (small cab + weight split across 2 items)
easier to find for sale
easier to upgrade/change since you can keep the same cab and switch heads, switch cabs w/ the same head, etc.
generally used with closed back cabs which yield a bit tighter sound.
repairs are generally limited to the head or the cab at one time.
used 4x12's are a dime a dozen.

combo advantages:
smaller/takes up less space
easier to move than a 4x12 (even if you go 2x12 combo w/ 2x12 extension cab)
usually open back cabs (5150's aren't) which yield a more open sound.
they are usually cheaper than buying a head + equivalent cab. e.g. head $600 + cab $400 vs. combo $700

with cabs keep in mind there are 2x12's designed for full-sized heads but they are very hard to come by used and new are often as expensive as a used 4x12.

if you are gigging i personally wouldn't recommend going smaller than 2x12" or 4x10".

with some models the combos have different features than the heads do.

honestly, if you don't end up going with a JCM800 or older, i'd definitely give any of the 5150's a fair shake as their voicing is similar to the JCM900/2000 series but they are usually a much better value for the money.

if you live near a heartless corporate music store they usually have an easy XX-day return policy with no restocking fee and i'd recommend taking advantage of that.

[Shwayman11]

Dont get a tubescreamer or a Boss
get an MXR Zakk Wylde Overdrive
Its just a ballsier version of the Boss without the tone bleed problem
I swiched from Boss to the MXR and haven't looked back since

[FireHalen]

Zen, thanks for the heads up on the head/cab benefits. This makes good sense, especially for updating the head and keeping the cabinet. Plus there's always the volume factor--there's more of it.:)

I didn't know cabs were that affordable. I've never really looked into them. They just seemed to big and expensive. The head/cab might be worth it after all.

I just checked out the JCM800 Reissue Head--very nice. I'll also check out those 5150's. They seem pretty sweet, too.

[zentropa]

new cabs are pretty price static for decent ones.

used cabs are affordable because they're next to impossible (or very costly) to ship and you can always find 2 dozen that people are wanting to sell, the laws of economics take over.

some of the oddball cabs are way more difficult to find (and as a result, are often more costly). e.g. the marshall 1922 and 1936 cabs (both 2x12's, the 1922 is for a 2x12 combo to stack on, the 1936 for a head) often sell for as much as if not more than what you can track down 4x12's for with enough digging. i tore 4 ligaments in my back pretty badly a while back and portability (can i lift it myself without ending up at the chiropractor the next day) has often been paramount to me.

with the economy crapping as it is, i'm guessing the prices you can get a cab for will bottom out in the near future.

combos can be very difficult to track down if you get overly specific. "i want a marshall tube combo amp" will probably yield a quick result. "i want a jcm800 4212" may take a good long while. the real bonus of combos is that you can often get em for the same price as the head.

[tone-wrecker]

Dont get a tubescreamer or a Boss
get an MXR Zakk Wylde Overdrive
Its just a ballsier version of the Boss without the tone bleed problem
I swiched from Boss to the MXR and haven't looked back since

you might have your preference or whatever, but i dont know how anyone could ever advise someone not to get a tube screamer....

[LUNACY THUNDER]

:headbang Line 6 POD and a Kramer! :headbang

[Shwayman11]

you might have your preference or whatever, but i dont know how anyone could ever advise someone not to get a tube screamer....

because this one is better.

[mrcrazyhimself]

I've owned both the JCM800 Reissue and my 1984 and to be honest, the 84 suits me a bit more because it seems to have a smoother softer reposnse and the reissue has a touch more gain, is a little tight and the nice effects loop. You can't go wrong either way

[Rick S]

So, this is fact?:scratchhe


because this one is better.

[FireHalen]

Thanks everyone for the posts. This has been an education. I think I've narrowed it down to a Peavey 5150 combo, a Valve King, or a Marshall combo. Or maybe a Marshall head/cab if the price is right.

One more thing before I go the local music store and test this stuff out.

What's your view on early Laney amps? There are some heads//cabs on Ebay--from the 80's--and they seem like killer amps. The sellers say they get a Marshall sound and can blow the roof off a gig. They're also very cheap.

What's your take on early Laney amps? Are these amps any good for an 80's sound?

[BeN5150]

if you want a good tube 80's sound at a nice low volume, look no further than the Orange Tiny Terror.

they sound great quite, and can get loud enough when you need them

[Shwayman11]

So, this is fact?:scratchhe

Yes.


This is what you want dude
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q59/docfeelgoodmc/DSC00066.jpg
Sorry, had to show off a bit- just got it :)