Kramer Sustainer wiring photos [Archive]

MAKiguitars

03-13-2008, 04:23 AM

Hi all,

Although I have been registered a while, this is my first post so I hope I don't make a fool out of myself.

I am in the process of rebuilding several Kramers along with some prototype guitars. One of the projects is a NOS Ripley and the other one is a Kramer Sustainer. I have the schematics for the Kramer Sustainer and I have a Floyd Rose/Schaller Sustainer pickup for the guitar, I wondered if anyone wanted to post some photos of the control cavity and how the circuit board is laid out please?

The photos would help in determining the scale/size of the board in relation to the control cavity. I appreciate that some Sustainers have stopped working due to age etc and if you feel uncomfortable by disturbing the electronics, I will understand, the last thing I would want is a Sustainer to stop working whilst rebuilding my own.

Thanks

Rob

unchained1984

03-13-2008, 06:56 AM

Rob I've a couple of sustainers, I'll take some shots for you later tonight.

imbas

03-13-2008, 07:09 AM

If you get a drawing of how that coated plug-in circuit board is laid out, I'd sure like a copy. I'm guessing most sustainers stop working due to something on that board going, since the other circuit board it plugs into is pretty simple. I actually have the capability to build a replacement board for a lot cheaper than buying a fernandez, but can't find the schematics for it anywhere! The alternative is to strip a non-working board, but they're hard to find too.

MAKiguitars

03-13-2008, 08:30 AM

Hi,

Thanks so much, it means one of my Kramer projects will be able to move forward.

Right now I have seven on the go;

Japanese Sambora - scalloped, finished!
Proaxe white flake - incoming rep Nswan neck
NOS Ripley - electronics are incoming
Nightswan holoflash which is finished
Proaxe purple sparkle - incoming rep NSwan neck
Kramer Baretta II - refinish and assembly
Kramer Sustainer - refinish, wiring, assembly

Apart from these I have three prototype guitars I am working on and a fourth 'special' guitar which I should sort out very soon. If I manage to get the size etc for the Sustainer circuit boards, I will see if I can get a few made depending on cost etc. A friend in Japan is busily sourcing information to build one and I will also try some of the electronic/sound engineering students at the University I am currently at as they love solving these type of problems.

Best wishes,

Rob

imbas

03-13-2008, 10:53 AM

Well, the circuit board on the drawing from Kramer, cost about $5.00 to make. The hybrid should be closer to $30.00 if you can find a schematic.

xbolt

03-13-2008, 01:13 PM

Let's see some pics of those projects!!! :toast

In case you didn't see the schem at the bottom of the page.

http://www.vintagekramer.com/sustainer.htm

2 versions...which helped me resurect this one...:thumbsup
http://www.autonobot.com/temp/S10.JPG

unchained1984

03-13-2008, 01:53 PM

As ever my camera skills are shot to hell but here you go:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/unchained1984/DSCF0974.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/unchained1984/DSCF0967.jpg

MAKiguitars

03-13-2008, 01:54 PM

Hi,

I did indeed download and print out the schematics which have been very helpful. I am under the impression there is a second circuit board to the schematics that I have already, is this the case?

I am working on getting some images up on my web site and hopefully add a few to another post as well. The Sustainer body is still in the post as are the other components i.e. the neck, pickup, bridge, well just about everything but I want to get started on either holoflashing the body or airbrushing it depending on whether I manage to sort out a suitable design. On all the graphics I have designed, I try to blend in the hardware to the graphic, trying to make the pickups and bridge invisible!

Back to the Sustainer though, I can't remember whether I read about two different versions, one with a battery cavity and one without?

Any help would be most welcome and thanks again for priceless information!

Rob

MAKiguitars

03-13-2008, 02:01 PM

WOW! Don't worry about the camera shots, that is great! It gives me an idea of the size of the main board and how it fits into the control cavity.

I have just been reading the rules for the forum, not trying to promote anything here except sharing of my love of Kramer guitars! This is a noob question which I feel shameful of asking but how do you insert an image into your post (boos and hisses aloud)?

I am dying to show you some photos!

Rob

unchained1984

03-13-2008, 02:05 PM

Rob I find the most convenient method to stick them up onto photobucket but any picture host will do and simply paste in the [IMG] tag:thumbsup

unchained1984

03-13-2008, 02:07 PM

Should have added the black one (later model )has the battery cavity and the flip/flop blue (earlier model) doesn't.

MAKiguitars

03-14-2008, 04:29 AM

Hi Sandy,

Thank you again for the photos and for the advice on how to post images. Here are some of the projects I am currently working on and I have a NOS Nightswan body incoming, it is natural so I am going to give it a graphic makeover.

I have just uploaded a few images to one of my folders last night.

<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/dp.jpg">
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/collection1.jpg">
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/collection2.jpg">
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/baretta8.jpg">
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/nightswan7.jpg">
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/ripley18.jpg">

Finally getting the hang of the picture thing! Yes those are finish cracks in the Nightswan however it plays great! Right now I have a lot of parts either on their way or in the pipeline to rebuild the NOS Nightswan body and the Sustainer. I checked on the photos of the Sustainer body last night and it is an original model without the battery cavity.

I have lots of pictures from the restorations and my prototypes. The Sambora was the body and neck from Tommyguitars, the neck had been scalloped but once I gave it a fret dress, replaced the bright work and gave it a Gotoh Floyd Rose, it plays great, hopefully you will see it in action once the videos are uploaded to my site however it is going to be around three weeks or so once I have my professional practice out of the way.

Thanks again, enjoy the photos. If you want any more posting, then I can start a new thread elsewhere so you can see what I have been up to.

Rob

unchained1984

03-14-2008, 05:45 AM

Looking good Rob:thumbsup

imbas

03-14-2008, 08:14 AM

In the pictures posted of the sustainer, you can see the 2 circuit boards. There is a green circuit board base, and there is a black coated hybrid board which plugs into the green board. The schematic on the Kramer page is the green board. Extremely simple 2 sided circuit board. The schematic of the black coated (on mine, it's white) is the one needed. These days that would probably be a chip, but in the 80's chips were pretty basic. The black hybrid plugin is the key part. I've even checked patent numbers, but I can find no schematic of that one. Without it....no sustainer.

I have a working sustainer and a converted one, and I'd love to restore the converted one back too.

ullathorne

03-14-2008, 09:32 AM

Wow Rob,
Cracking collection there mate. Another underground Kramer collector comes to the surface. Great to see the photo's. Keep us posted and Welcome to the Kramer Forum You will have to come to the Euro Expo;)

Andy.:toast

MAKiguitars

03-14-2008, 10:21 AM

Hi Andy,

If that is the one in Newcastle, then my trip has already been planned! I am hoping to get the Baretta II sorted out by then so everyone can see what I do in terms of graphics etc. Although I setup Kramers, fret dress them and rebuild them, I hoped to eventually launch my own line of guitars with the prototypes being test beds but that isn't going to be for another six months and I love taking broken down Kramers and sorting them out!

I am putting together the second prototype over the weekend and assessing more parts as they come to light. A friend of mine in the US keeps supplying me with parts I cannot say no to, however it does mean that I have plenty of blank canvas to work designs onto. I will post up some photos on a separate thread in the main section when I sort out the 'Ghost hack', the design blends in the Floyd Rose and humbucker so they almost become invisible - not an easy thing to do!

In Sandy's photos, does anyone have a schematic of the black shielded circuit board? As my Sustainer is an older model, I am guessing the battery disappears into the electronics cavity cover?

Thanks

Rob

ullathorne

03-14-2008, 11:10 AM

Hey Rob, Thats great news, look forward to meeting up with you and checking out your Graphic work.
What i would do, is like you said, get yourself a new thread over in the General Kramer Disscussion area and open up your collection to a lot more members. Im sure many only visit this section when they need a particular problem solved.

Andy.:toast

unchained1984

03-14-2008, 12:17 PM

I'll take a look in my stash Rob/imbas to see if I've anything on the little pcb, a very good friend helped me out with additional sustainer schematics a good while back. Things are topsy turvy in the house at the minute so bear with me:thumbsup

MAKiguitars

03-15-2008, 03:00 AM

Hi Sandy,

Thank you once again, I am just about to start putting the second prototype together today and hopefully I should receive the Sustainer next week along with lots of other parts for its restoration! Hard graft is in order for sure but it's good fun and between my own prototypes and the 'Ghost hack', it should give a good example of the graphic work.

Not sure which ones are coming up to Newcastle at the moment, still trying to decide but hopefully the Baretta II will be finished, just can't rush these things though! Any help with the second circuit board is most appreciated, best get cracking with the work and look out for a post on the main forum!

Rob

edgarmolina

03-15-2008, 10:57 AM

MAKiguitars

03-15-2008, 12:50 PM

Hi Edgar,

That isn't the half of it. With the three prototypes, the Ghost hack, the Sustainer and now a Nightswan NOS project, I need a new home! While I wait for two replica Nightswan necks for the Proaxes, I tried my holoflash Nightswan neck to the Proaxe bodies, they will look great and I managed to get hold of an R1 locking nut in gold and one in black for the Proaxes.

Lots of parts arriving next week including the Sustainer body and the week after will be the Sustainer neck, Floyd Rose etc. The Nightswan NOS body, Floyd and other bits should be on their way after that so with the prototypes and everything else, this house is bursting! Pictures will be incoming as promised, my site is lacking images at the moment but that should change soon.

I definitely think another thread is advisable to display all of the guitars. It is a regular factory here! Once the Sustainer body arrives, I will post some pictures here, it is going to need a little attention to return it to factory specs in the wiring cavity but other than that, it will be in for a cool graphic or holoflash.

Rob

MAKiguitars

03-19-2008, 04:24 AM

My Sustainer body has arrived!!!!! The neck should be coming next week along with the rest of the hardware, the pickup should be here this week. Unfortunately I am not at home so I can't see it, not fair.

I will post up some photos so you can see the state it is in. As I mentioned it will either be holoflashed or receive a custom graphic.

I noticed another thread regarding a Sustainer that has just died (hovering around like a vulture), hope some photos of the circuit board might help.

Take it easy,

Rob

MAKiguitars

03-24-2008, 02:29 PM

More on the Sustainer....

I have spent the weekend preparing the body for the Sustainer and Baretta II so they can be primed and ready for airbrushing. I have devised two graphics and I should be able to sort them out in around three weeks before they go for lacquering.

The Sustainer body was in a bad way, someone had fitted four CTS pots to it along with a Gibson style switch and a mini toggle. I need to plug three holes and get them back to size before proceeding. A respray had been performed but the lacquer was terrible so I stripped the lacquer with some good old fashioned elbow grease, nothing like a bit of hard work;)

Right now the body needs the holes plugging, just want to make sure I get the right wood but otherwise it is looking a lot better. The neck pocket had also been painted and lacquered which made the neck fit very tight indeed. Some careful sanding and the pocket was free of paint back to the wood. I couldn't save the neck pocket markings though which is a shame but I will sign it myself once it has been finished. The graphic is reminiscent of an '80s Charvel or Jackson that I saw a long time ago, it is going to be great fun to airbrush and rebuild.

Thanks again for all your help Sandy, if you can find that schematic for the upper board, that would be great but no hurry, I have lots on my plate at the moment:) Pictures when I have some results!

Rob

nightwatch

03-24-2008, 03:55 PM

Awesome, outstanding work Rob! Keep us posted on these and how they're going. Thanks for sharing the pics.:bananahea

edgarmolina

03-24-2008, 04:54 PM

t's up bro, sorry for answering so late, i didn't read the post until now :-| , as i said man, u need to let go some of ur guitars ;) when u'll be doing that please remember the poor edgar, that lives in colombia and want another kramer :D

:thumbsup send me some please :lol

My Sustainer body has arrived!!!!! The neck should be coming next week along with the rest of the hardware, the pickup should be here this week. Unfortunately I am not at home so I can't see it, not fair.

I will post up some photos so you can see the state it is in. As I mentioned it will either be holoflashed or receive a custom graphic.

I noticed another thread regarding a Sustainer that has just died (hovering around like a vulture), hope some photos of the circuit board might help.

Take it easy,

Rob

KramerUK

03-24-2008, 04:56 PM

Rob sorry I got onto this one so late!! Welcome to the forum, great to have another Kramer collector/enthusiast here in the UK.

You must have spent a while underground!! :D Good to have on board though.

Good news for you is that the Euro expo will be a lot closer to you this year, looks like we are going to be in the Kramer Mecca of Liverpool (2 collectors in that area with about 50 between them!!)

Loving the NS, and looks like you've got some great projects on the way as well!!

MAKiguitars

03-25-2008, 06:00 AM

No problems, updates will come thick and fast. I have just uploaded some more images as work progresses on the eight Kramers! Man I love these guitars, I can't get enough of them especially broken down ones that can be renovated into awesome pieces of art!

I can't upload the actual graphic designs until they are committed to the bodies but otherwise here are some more images including three Barettas that I used to own, bought them all in one month:)

<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/86kramer.jpg" >
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/87kramer.jpg" >
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/88kramer.jpg" >
<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/bhc.jpg" >

<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/sust1.jpg" >

<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/sust4.jpg" >

<img src="http://www.makiguitars.com/maki/imgs/sust6.jpg">

I am trying to get a book finished that can be downloaded, once most of the stuff is complete, I will post in the main forum with full details of the Kramer projects, just trying to get a few things finished first:) The neck pocket on the Sustainer looks awful with all that black paint however not anymore!

Rob

Must come over to Liverpool and go for a pint;)

unchained1984

03-25-2008, 03:46 PM

Rob I just checked out the original two page schematic and it's the PCB layout only, nothing on the little plug in board:-x

MAKiguitars

03-26-2008, 06:47 AM

Hi Sandy,

Thank you for trying, at the moment I am looking at the Sustainiac system to retrofit into the Sustainer. I am not sure whether I can use my Floyd Rose/Schaller NOS Sustainer pickup (script logo) with it as the pickup might cause problems with the Sustainiac circuit which is a blow. I am sure I will get hold of another Sustainer with a blown driver sooner or later!

If I decide to go ahead with the Sustainiac system, it should fit directly into the cavity without any modifications to circuit board or cavity, it would mean I get all the benefits of latest generation technology (brand new) although it wouldn't be an original but as I have mentioned, I love taking broken down Kramers that are beyond saving in most peoples eyes and go to work on them.

Once the Kramer Expo is sorted out both date and location, I should be able to bring a couple of guitars with me, I am working flat out to get the guitars ready in time, hopefully I can prime both the Baretta II and Sustainer body next weekend and from there, airbrush the graphics onto them.

Thanks again Sandy and everyone, once the Sustainiac arrives providing it is suitable, I will post some images of how it is fitted etc.

Rob

unchained1984

03-26-2008, 07:13 AM

Rob, long time member TommysGs retro fitted and documented a Fernande unit install a couple years back, drop him a pm:thumbsup

MAKiguitars

03-27-2008, 03:58 AM

Hi Sandy,

No problems:) I have just received another shipment of parts yesterday, mostly to restore the Sustainer including a USA neck (correct for the period) and an Original Floyd Rose. I spent most of yesterday afternoon cleaning the Baretta II hardware and the Sustainer hardware - lots of skin, gunk, sweat, all the things from well played guitars! Both Floyd systems look great now they are cleaned up.

The Sustainiac system is looking good in terms of retrofitting into the Sustainer body without any modification. The guys will build the system to your specs so you can have push-pull pots if you wish so you don't have to drill more holes for mini toggles on a regular guitar. The system is the same one fitted to the Jackson DK2S, I am going over the costing at the moment but they do a single coil and full humbucker version so it would retrofit into most guitars without any issues (just don't use metal humbucker surrounds).

I found TommyGs article on the Fernandes, thank you for that. With the Sustainiac system you can add the gain control for the intensity so it operates in a similar fashion to the original Sustainer wiring. Will keep you posted, should begin priming the bodies this weekend after all the repairs have been completed.

My NOS Nightswan body, Proaxe neck, Floyd Rose and a lot of other parts are on the way from the USA at the moment, should be able to finish off another guitar or two. Not sure what will be ready for the Kramer Expo but I will try to get some of the Kramers done! I have been adding to my eBook so I will post into the main forum when things are looking a little more completed.

Rob

MAKiguitars

04-01-2008, 06:21 AM

After a few enquiries, I decided to plump for the Sustainiac system that can be found at www.sustainiac.com. It means that my NOS script logo Sustainer pickup is surplus but I am sure to find a Sustainer with a blown pickup sooner or later:)

I will post some photos of the installation when the guitar starts to get put back together. I managed to plug and re drill the holes so they are all the correct size after the mods that were made to the body. The body is prepped and ready to be primed before airbrushing a custom graphic onto it. The Baretta II body is in the same state i.e. waiting for priming and I have just taken a Baretta that is going to have a one off graphic that you will never get anywhere else as it is completely unique to me - pictures when it is done but I need to undergo an operation first (whoops giving them game away)!

I will keep adding to this topic as the kit is installed, might be about a month to two depending on when I can get the lacquering done.

Rob